Trek Ponderings

Water Bob · Oct 12, 2016

Just wondering...

Why does the federation use the two-hull design so often? Why do almost all of the Federation ship designs use a circular hull?

Voyager is a bit of a meld, but you can still see the influence of the primary and secondary hull, even if the primary hull is more tear shaped than oval.

DS9's Defiant comes to mind as the only major starship design I can remember in all of Trekdom that went with a completely different hull design.

And, back to Voyager...why is there two position for the warp nacelles? One is for cruising position, the other for warp...but why not just have the nacelles angled up for warp at all times, like most other Starfleet ships?

Another thought: Why are the warp nacelles on ships projected away from the ship? I've heard/read that it's necessary to create the warp field around the ship. And, I think I read, years ago, that its because of radiation--that they have to be some distance from the hull to protect the crew.

Thoughts? Other questions?

ccs · Oct 12, 2016

Water Bob said:
Just wondering...

Why does the federation use the two-hull design so often? Why do almost all of the Federation ship designs use a circular hull?

Voyager is a bit of a meld, but you can still see the influence of the primary and secondary hull, even if the primary hull is more tear shaped than oval.

DS9's Defiant comes to mind as the only major starship design I can remember in all of Trekdom that went with a completely different hull design.

It might have some cultural or mechanical explanation in-universe. But whatever it is it's purely secondary to the real reason:
It's a real-world visual cue so that the viewer knows immediately what faction of ship they're seeing on screen.

Ryujin · Oct 12, 2016

Way back when, in the early '70s, I remember someone commenting that the outboard nacelles were for reasons of safety (radiation, detonation, and many more ations). I either read it in the old "Star Trek Technical Manual" or heard it in a TV interview, because there wasn't much else back then.

Voyager's nacelles pivot for coolness factor, though it could also be written off to their terrestrial landing capabilities (which I think they only used once anyway).

RedSiegfried · Oct 12, 2016

Re the two hulls, maybe it's because someone thought it was a great idea for the ships to be able to separate their saucer section for whatever reason?

Not very into Trek lore but I do seem to remember in one of the versions of "The Cage" they mentioned separating the saucer section, and that was TOS. Don't quote me on that though. Before I saw that, I thought they only came up with that concept in Next Generation.

Umbran · Oct 12, 2016

Water Bob said:
DS9's Defiant comes to mind as the only major starship design I can remember in all of Trekdom that went with a completely different hull design.

It isn't really *completely* different. It is ultimately a ship with a disk-shaped hull on which the nacelles have been brought right up to the edge of the disk.

And, back to Voyager...why is there two position for the warp nacelles? One is for cruising position, the other for warp...but why not just have the nacelles angled up for warp at all times, like most other Starfleet ships?

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Variable_geometry_pylon

Unfortunately, they aren't terribly consistent with the explanation. One stated reason is that this allows them to reduce the damage done to subspace from high warp, as described in the ST:TNG episode "Force of Nature". Unfortunately, at one point in VOY when this damage is brought up, the crew doesn't raise the point that their design doesn't cause damage.

Ryujin · Oct 12, 2016

RedSiegfried said:
Re the two hulls, maybe it's because someone thought it was a great idea for the ships to be able to separate their saucer section for whatever reason?

Not very into Trek lore but I do seem to remember in one of the versions of "The Cage" they mentioned separating the saucer section, and that was TOS. Don't quote me on that though. Before I saw that, I thought they only came up with that concept in Next Generation.

Digging deeply into my memory of the deck plans I don't seem to have anymore, I believe that the notation "detachable" was posted next to the primary hull. I don't remember there being any explanation as to how that was accomplished.

Water Bob · Oct 12, 2016

The saucer separation was definitely known before TNG. I don't know where I learned about it--maybe deck plans, or maybe The World of Star Trek or Star Trek Lives--but I do remember seeing it in the premier of TNG, Encounter at Farpoint. I said to myself, "OK, they finally did it!"

From a "coolness" point of view, I think it's a horrible idea. The secondary hull looks silly skirting around space like that.

Water Bob · Oct 12, 2016

I"m guessing the Arrowhead shaped badge will be used on Star Trek Discovery. Maybe we'll finally get an official stance on just what that badge means. Starfleet. A division in starfleet. I used to think it was the symbol of just the Enterprise, but it seems that is not so.

I remember reading that the Arrowhead was the assignment patch for the Enterprise that was adopted by all of Starfleet after Kirk's historic five year mission. But, I think that idea has been over-ridden, reading the discussions that have happened when I bring this up.

Ryujin · Oct 12, 2016

Water Bob said:
I"m guessing the Arrowhead shaped badge will be used on Star Trek Discovery. Maybe we'll finally get an official stance on just what that badge means. Starfleet. A division in starfleet. I used to think it was the symbol of just the Enterprise, but it seems that is not so.

I remember reading that the Arrowhead was the assignment patch for the Enterprise that was adopted by all of Starfleet after Kirk's historic five year mission. But, I think that idea has been over-ridden, reading the discussions that have happened when I bring this up.

Yes, originally each ship had its own shape of badge. The departmental assignment (command, science/medical, and engineering/support) was contained within that badge. Later the Enterprise crew badge was adopted as a Starfleet wide design, with the explanation that it was so adopted after the Enterprise returned from its record 5 year mission. Now I think it's just hand-waved as always having been the insignia of Star Fleet, which is clearly not so from original canon.

Ryujin · Oct 12, 2016

Water Bob said:
The saucer separation was definitely known before TNG. I don't know where I learned about it--maybe deck plans, or maybe The World of Star Trek or Star Trek Lives--but I do remember seeing it in the premier of TNG, Encounter at Farpoint. I said to myself, "OK, they finally did it!"

From a "coolness" point of view, I think it's a horrible idea. The secondary hull looks silly skirting around space like that.

An upside-down flat iron with wings, for sure.

This looks like a copy from the original deck plans, from back in the early '70s, based on the font and what I remember from the set that I had. Note the entry saying "(Detachable)" next to Primary Hull.

http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/blueprints/star-trek-blueprints-sheet-1.jpg

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