Player vs Player PC death

If you dispel his weapons and armor, you only have a few rounds to shatter them. Now that you're a saint, you've got plenty of abilities to help defend yourself.

Is there anyway you can just bull rush the death knight off the cliff? Summoned monster or something? Just be sure to find the body if you do.

I'd invest in ALOT of Sovriegn Glue.
Then I'd just cover him in it as he slept.

On a more practical aproach?
I'd contrive some reason to have to Plane Shift the party.
Once in the ________? Just don't include him in the return casting of the spell.
He's a fighter, what's he going to do about it?

In the mean time? Just don't heal him.

dragonfriend7738 said:

Player vs Character knowledge. I know the fighter has it out for the cleric, but the cleric doesn't.

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A bit late for advice given the date on the OP, but just wanted to point out that the above sentiment is Irrelevant. If you want to stick to the rules and the usually expected "good form" when you know the other player is completely disregarding that "good form" then your best option is to simply have another PC ready to take the place of your doomed one. If you agreed to stay on board with player-versus-player approach to the game then you'll pretty much get what you bargained for anyway. If having your PC ganked by ANOTHER PC is not exactly what you signed on for then I'd raise some fuss with the other player AND the DM who is failing to reign that player in and keep his game on track. If you get no appropriate return to the reciprocity that players usually feel they get to rely on then SCREW the player-versus-character-knowledge niceties because that's obviously NOT the sort of game that's being run here. Get mean or expect to get run over and roll with it.

Since we don't know what spells you have prepared or what gear you may or may not have, it's hard to advise.

Still, good ol' Obscuring Mist! Stops charges, and makes reach weapons like his Spiked Chain into non-reach weapons. Allows Withdrawal to work when he's face to face as well, since Attack of Opportunity doesn't happen against concealed opponents.

How quickly we forget the lower level spells.

Bestow Curse may or may not be available to you, but it's very versatile. His Save v a Cause Blindness would make that a joke, but against the Curse of Blindness? Higher level spell, harder to Save.

In general the trip specialist is a sucker for ranged attacks, and some of his favorite tactics are avoided with a Tumble check (if you have one).

And, since he's standing at a ledge, something (anything) to give him a good push is has all kinds of potential. Does your character have a horse? Do you know how easily a horse is spooked into simply lunging forward a step or two? Slap his flank, or rake it with something sharp. IRL a horse facing the edge of a cliff will jump off if spooked that way. It's an instinct they can't avoid, it just happens. A Handle Animal or Knowledge Nature should allow you that move, legitimately. And what's the Bull Rush potential of a Horse?

Tanglefoot bags are a bloody pain for the chain fighter, by the way. Ranged Touch attack on the weapon itself and he's effectively disarmed. He can't swing it very well when it's stuck to the ground. (That one's a DM call).

Let me clarify- the ledge is only about 10 ft tall. He's on the top of it, I'm below it and to the side. Not enough to damage/put away the death knight, but enough to prevent a charge.

I am aware of the time limit on dispel, but Shatter is instantaneous, so I have time.

I have a 'fate token' that can be used for various things- instant hit, dodge a hit, save an ally, ect. I was thinking of using it to either get a new prepared spells list for the fight, or to gain a one-time access to a 5th level spell (like Heal; guy has 120 hp, losing 80 would hurt.) Both of those uses are well inside the range of things traded for the coins in the past.

Obscuring mist is a nice touch, but it would prevent my ranger ally from being effective, I think.

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Duration on Shatter is instantaneous. Casting time isn't. His items will probably be magical again by the time you can get the spell off. (Using Dispel to temporarily disenchant an item or items is a 1st Ed thing, and while it may be part of your house rules/home brew, it only suppressed them for a round. )

It's too bad Word of Recall isn't available, even with that special token. Leave the field until you're ready for this fight. Air Walk can fill a similar role though. Just be out of his reach for the duration, and do your worst from a distance.

Can you pull a 5th level Druid or Sorcerer/Wiz spell with that token? Transmute Rock to Mud, followed by a Dispel, would end the fight very quickly. Turn the ground under his feet to glop, with enough expanse that h can't get out in a round. Then Dispel and leave him locked waist deep in stone. You get two 10x10 areas per caster level, so 40x40 is available.

That gives you time to talk him down (better solution for the Cloistered Cleric), or just let the Ranger use him for target practice. It also has a good chance of catching and imprisoning his weapon. You could get in a few licks with Spiritual Weapon while you're at it.

Of course, you could go the old Divine Power path and try to match him, toe to toe. He'll probably kill you though. You get a Strength, HP and BAB boost, but he still has the armor and feats.

Be aware that, as a Death Knight, he has no CON score, meaning no CON bonus to hit points. So while his hit dice change to D12s, his hit points may well have been reduced. He may or may not be accustomed to that yet.

Having looked at Bestow Curse, it isn't what I was thinking. Still, while you can't do any drains on his undead form, a -6 Strength from a Curse would still work, and just take a lot of fire out of his attacks.

If he uses any form of summoning of allies (undead or otherwise), remember that Protection from Evil keeps summoned, enchanted or conjured creatures from making contact, so long as you don't attack them. So while he's burning a fairly major power (and a full round) to call them, you can burn a 1st level that shuts his efforts down completely.

Bottom line though, he's a combat machine and you aren't. You may just lose.

Greenfield said:

Duration on Shatter is instantaneous. Casting time isn't. His items will probably be magical again by the time you can get the spell off. (Using Dispel to temporarily disenchant an item or items is a 1st Ed thing, and while it may be part of your house rules/home brew, it only suppressed them for a round. )

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From the SRD

SRD said:

If the object that you target is a magic item, you make a dispel check against the item’s caster level. If you succeed, all the item’s magical properties are suppressed for 1d4 rounds, after which the item recovers on its own. A suppressed item becomes nonmagical for the duration of the effect.

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Greenfield said:

That gives you time to talk him down (better solution for the Cloistered Cleric), or just let the Ranger use him for target practice. It also has a good chance of catching and imprisoning his weapon. You could get in a few licks with Spiritual Weapon while you're at it.

Be aware that, as a Death Knight, he has no CON score, meaning no CON bonus to hit points. So while his hit dice change to D12s, his hit points may well have been reduced. He may or may not be accustomed to that yet.

If he uses any form of summoning of allies (undead or otherwise), remember that Protection from Evil keeps summoned, enchanted or conjured creatures from making contact, so long as you don't attack them. So while he's burning a fairly major power (and a full round) to call them, you can burn a 1st level that shuts his efforts down completely.

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The first thing I tried to do was talk him down. Ended up getting a 29 on my diplomacy vs a 29 on his intimidate to counter. We are quite literally equals on that floor, and after watching him willingly slide into the corruption, there isn't a lot of incentive to try and bring him back (if that's even possible at this point.)

The DM ruled that he could swap CON bonus to HP for a CHA bonus, since he's now using CHA for CON skills. He ended up gaining more HP than he lost by transforming.

I don't have to spend any spell slots for Protection From Evil, thanks to my at will Saint's Aura. Double strength circle of protection, plus lesser globe of invulnerability is definitely a boon in this case.

And, as Grogg noted, I'll have 1d4 rounds to cast Shatter on his items after I dispel them.

The only question is, will the Death Knight's spell resistance be transferred to his weapons and armor? I didn't see anything implying it would be, but I'd like to confirm.

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First, I stand corrected on the use of Dispel Magic to temporarily disenchant magic items.

Or, to be specific, item. Just reread the whole spell.

You can target an object or creature to try and take down spells currently in effect.

You can target an object to try and suppress it's magical abilities.

Targeting the creature doesn't suppress that creature's items though. To shut down his armor or weapon(s), you need to target each one separately. So in all likelihood, you'll get a shot at one item.

Make it his armor, or major defensive item. If you can't effectively hit or hurt him, he can take his time and beat you to death with a pencil stub

Second, while Dispel Magic isn't subject to Spell Resistance, damage spells like Shatter usually are. And yes, his SR applies to himself and to all of his attended items.

Look for spells like Lesser Acid Orb. Acid ignores Hardness of items it attacks, so it's a real effective way to ruin gear.

Regarding the Ranger: If I'm running the Death Knight and the Ranger is being a pain, I advance and try to Sunder his bow. Without the Improved Sunder feat this would provoke an Attack of Opportunity from him which would negate my Sunder. But he's armed with a ranged weapon, and ranged weapons can't be used for Attack of Opportunity. Unless he has a natural weapon or an Unarmed Strike ability, he's treated as unarmed. Even if he has a spiked gauntlet or some such, that wasn't the weapon he ws using, so he still doesn't get that AoO. And bows, being wood and only an few inches thck, break really easily. Alternately, Sunder that worn item called a Quiver. The bow is useless without arrows, and I'll bet the leather quiver breaks easier that his (probably magical) bow.

So, if I'm running anyone other than the Death Knight, I want to protect that Ranger and keep the Death Knight away from him, outide Sunder range.

Third, by the rules, skills like Diplomacy and Intimidate aren't contested rolls. They both have hard target numbers to achieve certain effects.
Of course, by the rules, you can't use either one on another PC. Silly idea that Players have free will... <grumble grumble grouse>

Unless he has some effective ranged attack though Air Walk is a near perfect defense. You go up, he stays down, giving you time to make sure he stays down. Throw it on your Ranger friend too and the Death Knight is done for, plain and simple.

If you really want to be the "good guy", use your token to pull a 5th level spell: Raise Dead. Then, after you've killed him, bring him back, fully alive and no longer a Death Knight. He was your character's friend and trusted companion for years, after all. (Warning, this might tick the other player off no end. But then, why else would you do it? )

My thoughts on him beating me to death with a pencil stub is that I've got DR 5 overcome by magic and evil, but whichever is better. Since his natural weapons are neither magic nor evil- let alone both, I'll be ignoring the first 5 points of damage. Add to that my fast healing 4(half of my 8 HD), and if I can get him unarmed, he can't effectively hurt me at all. Plus, every time he touches me, or I touch him, he will take 1d8 points of holy damage. 1d3 plus strength minus 9 isn't a lot of damage to take.

Not to deny that I'll try to remove his magic armor as well, but I really want to prevent him from using his optimized trip build, which will require me to remove his spiked chain from the picture.

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