D&D 5E Character progression - need an advice

Ermengildo · Jan 6, 2017

Hi guys. I'm pretty new to d&d so I need some advice on further progression of my character.
Right now I'm lvl 5: rogue (at) 3 / wizard (bladesinger) 2. And mostly I use hit'n'run style with scag cantrips.
We have very slow XP progression so every lvlup is important and I'm thinking what should I take next few lvls.
The options I see right now are:
- going wizard 5 for ASI at 7 and haste at 8
- going one more rogue lvl for ASI and 3 more Wiz levels after to get ASI at 6 and 8 and haste at 5
- going strait rogue for better sneak and cool rogue/at abilities

I've never played lvl 5+ characters before so it's pretty hard to evaluate all the benefits of all the options and choose the best one, so I'll be grateful for any advice u can give.

Blue · Jan 6, 2017

Welcome, I hope you are having fun!

That's a good question. With multiclass characters it's easier to accidentally gimp yourself and feel like you are lagging a bit behind the other characters.

With your melee focus and great AC, it seems like a focus on more rogue will serve you better than more wizard for spells.

ASIs are important, I would head for rogue 4. And probably up to rogue 5 for another die of sneak attack as well as uncanny dodge.

You mention Haste, which is a great spell to buff you. I want to point out something that seems like a disadvantage but may be a strength of it. The extra action is limited in what you can do. You can't cast another SCAG cantrip, so it may seem like it's a bit of a power down. But you can do an Attack action, and there are a bunch of feats that grant "if you do an attack action..." like Dual Wielder, which can then give you a bonus action attack with an off-hand weapon. Just something to think about. (You still can only deal SA once per turn, but you have more chances to land a hit to apply it.)

Outside that though I'm not sure I'd go too far up wizard. A few more slots to cast shield or absorb elements (the latter is from the free Elemental Evil players guide PDF on the Wizard's site).

Good luck and have fun!

Ermengildo · Jan 6, 2017

Thanks for your answer.
Actually the extra attack plan is to use the first action for SA and cantrip dmg and the second one to prepare an attack right after the end of my turn so it can trigger another SA. Most DM's I play with do accept such move.
But you are right, extra SA dice and uncanny dodge seem so tasty)

WarpedAcorn · Jan 6, 2017

Which Archetype did you pick for your Rogue? If you did not go Arcane Trickster then you might ask your DM to switch over. This way you can add some caster levels to your spell slots. It won't give you access to higher level spells quicker, but it will give you access to higher level spell slots for you to upgrade lower level spells (if applicable). Of course if you went Swashbuckler then their Fancy Footwork could synergy great with Booming Blade, allowing you to move in, attack, and move away without an AoO, then if the enemy moves they take extra damage.

As for which class to look into...it depends a lot on the type of games you are playing. Does the DM give you a lot of rests? If so then Wizard might look more appealing. But if he is a Death-Marcher and you find yourself constantly out of spell slots then the Rogue will look better (since their Sneak Attack is always available and the main source of their damage).

Personally, I would lean to maybe 1 more level of Wizard to get access to 2nd level spells (mainly for some added Defenses like Mirror Image or Blur), and then focus on Rogue.

Blue · Jan 6, 2017

Ermengildo said:
Thanks for your answer.
Actually the extra attack plan is to use the first action for SA and cantrip dmg and the second one to prepare an attack right after the end of my turn so it can trigger another SA. Most DM's I play with do accept such move.
But you are right, extra SA dice and uncanny dodge seem so tasty)

Haste gives a very limited set of allowed actions. Neither casting a spell/cantrip nor using the Ready action to make a later attack are among them. Now, if your DMs allow it, go for it.

Blue · Jan 6, 2017

WarpedAcorn said:
Personally, I would lean to maybe 1 more level of Wizard to get access to 2nd level spells (mainly for some added Defenses like Mirror Image or Blur), and then focus on Rogue.

Listen to WarpedAcorn, he's got a great point. Get a good concentration spell. If you're casting already, using your otherwise unused concentration to buff or debuff is near a freebee. Frees up some other caster to have a different concentration spell as well.

Yunru · Jan 6, 2017

Blue said:
Haste gives a very limited set of allowed actions. Neither casting a spell/cantrip nor using the Ready action to make a later attack are among them. Now, if your DMs allow it, go for it.

He can, however, make the attack with the Haste action, and ready the attack with his regular. He just can't use the cantrips.

My suggestion would be: Look at your party.
If someone else can give you Haste, let them. Stick Rogue, it's better overall.
If someone else can't, well then given your slow level progression, head straight for Haste. Then duck out of Wizard completely.

Ermengildo · Jan 6, 2017

WarpedAcorn said:
Which Archetype did you pick for your Rogue?..

I'm AT allready, more spell slots and more cantrips is really great, stuff like Disguise self and Friends has allready helped the party plenty of times.
And you made a good point about 2lvl spells, didn't think about them but those defensive buffs fit great into my style. So guess I'll go for that wizard lvl at 6.

Blue said:
Haste gives a very limited set of allowed actions. Neither casting a spell/cantrip nor using the Ready action to make a later attack are among them. Now, if your DMs allow it, go for it.

Well, didn't know about that. I'll talk again with my DM about this rules, weather it's his homerule or just a mistake.
Without cantrip attack, double low lvl SA is totally not worth rushing haste.

Yunru · Jan 6, 2017

True enough on SA not scaling while you take Wizard levels. Also to consider is that ATs can get Haste anyway, it just takes longer.

WarpedAcorn · Jan 6, 2017

Ermengildo said:
Well, didn't know about that. I'll talk again with my DM about this rules, weather it's his homerule or just a mistake.
Without cantrip attack, double low lvl SA is totally not worth rushing haste.

Yeah...its either a mistake or a homerule. Per the "Ready" rule in the PHB:

Som etim es you want to get the jum p on a foe or wait for
a particular circum stance before you act. To do so, you
can take the Ready action on your turn so that you can
act later in the round using your reaction.
First, you decide what perceivable circum stance
will trigger your reaction. Then, you choose the action
you will take in response to that trigger, or you choose
to move up to your speed in response to it. Exam ples
include “If the cultist steps on the trapdoor, I’ll pull the
lever that opens it,” and “If the goblin steps next to me,
I move away.”
W hen the trigger occurs, you can either take your
reaction right after the trigger finishes or ignore
the trigger. Rem em ber that you can take only one
reaction per round.
W hen you ready a spell, you cast it as normal but
hold its energy, which you release with your reaction
when the trigger occurs. To be readied, a spell must
have a casting time of 1 action, and holding onto the
spell’s m agic requires concentration (explained in
chapter 10). If your concentration is broken, the spell
dissipates without taking effect. For example, if you are
concentrating on the web spell and ready magic missile,
your web spell ends, and if you take damage before
you release magic missile with your reaction, your
concentration might be broken

So really, you should not be able to use other Actions during the round if you are Readying. For example, if you get Extra Attack from Bladesinger, you can't attack once then Ready the 2nd attack. It also eats up your Reaction, which is important if you have any spells (Shield, Counterspell, etc...) that work off of the Reaction, or if an enemy provokes an Attack of Opportunity.

That being said, there are some "legal" ways to double dip into the Sneak Attack pool...one being an enemy that provokes an AoO. If you have a Battlemaster in the group then they can use Commanding Strike so you can attack, or if you are a Multi-Class Battlemaster (or have the Martial Adept Feat) you can use the Riposte maneuver. All of these rely on you using a Reaction though, and are only valid in circumstances you would benefit from Sneak Attack.

With Haste, just for clarification, you COULD still cast a Cantrip or Spell with your base Action, then Attack with the Hasted Action. With a 5th or 6th Level Bladesinger you do get the Extra Attack, and if you're Dual Wielding you could squeeze out Green-Flame Blade, 2 Attacks with main hand, and 1 off hand Attack while Hasted. That's 4 opportunities to trigger the Sneak Attack.