D&D 5E Celestial Blade Sorclock

tglassy

Adventurer
Hello!

I wanted to share this because I was immensely surprised at how well it appeared to be, and I wanted to see if I’m missing something.

I have had the opportunity to create a lvl 20 character for a lvl 20 campaign that will be starting soon. I have run such games before, but never played one (I’m almost always a DM) and my DM told me to go nuts. We were allowed to roll our stats, and I rolled exceptionally well (a rare occurrence for me. The last character I rolled stats for wound up with a 4 and a 6.). The stats I rolled were 18, 17, 14, 13, 12, 11.

After what seemed like forever working on it, tweaking it here and there, I finally settled on an Aarikocra Divine Soul Sorcerer 3/Celestial Warlock 17.

After MUCH debate, and playing with the options, I actually, surprisingly, settled on the Pact of the Blade.

For Invocations, I took:
Agonizing Blast
Repelling Bladt
Thirsting Blade
Lifedrinker
Eldritch Smite
Master of Myriad Forms
Shroud of Shadow

For Feats, I wound up with three, including Tough from my background as new background have been coming with a starter Feat. The other two are Metamagic Adept, to get two more Metamagic options and two more Sorcery Points, and Great Weapon Master.

My Metamagics are Subtle Spell, Quicken Spellc Extended Spell and Distant Spell. I have 5 Sorcery Points, but can only convert spell slots into 3 points max. Since I have four 5th lvl warlock slots, when I take a Short Rest I can essentially convert a 5th lvl slot until a permanent 2nd lvl slot that lasts until a long rest. It’s not quite a Coffeelock, but I can have a number of extra 2nd lvl slots to help fuel Sorcery Points. And since I have Greater Restoration as a Celestial Warlock, I COULD go without a long rest if I wanted. But I only like so much Cheese.

As part of the lvl 20 game, I was also allowed to chose a Legendary item and a Very Rare item. I can have other Magic Items (were supposed to be rulers of our respective nations) but only one Rare and one Legendary.

After much deliberation, I wound up choosing a Belt of Storm Giant Strength and a +3 Greatsword.

For spells, I have a couple AOE’s, and Spirit Shroud, but mostly my spells are defensive or utility. Oh, and I took True Polymorph as my lvl 9 Arcanum and Glibness for my lvl 8 Arcanum. I’m a ruler. I need to be Charismatic.

All said and done, my initial thought when I tried this combination was that it would be lackluster. After all, I am not a Hexblade, and everyone knows the Pact of the Blade is lackluster.

But…

I get two attacks. The damage for each is as follows:

2d6+3: +3 Greatsword
+9: Belt of Storm Giant Strength
+5: Lifedrinker
+10: Great Weapon Master
2d8: Spirit Shroud

That’s 2d6+2d8+27 per hit. Thats an average of 45 damage I believe, per hit. And that’s without my smites, which add an additional 6d8, or 32 average damage.

Of course, I’ll save my Smites for when I Crit. So a Crit would wind up with 4d6+16d8+27 for an average of 123 damage. And that’s on a single hit.

Thats two resources used: Spirit Shroud and an Eldritch Smite. Thats half my Spell Slots. But Spirit Shroud is the only spell I’d be casting in this case, and even without it, I’ll be doing substantial damage every turn without needing resources.

And what’s more, I can Quicken Green Flame Blade, which would trigger my Radiant Soul feature adding an additional 5 damage, for a total of 2d6+5d8+32 (ave 65) damage plus 3d8+5 (ave 20) to a second person.

In other words, with one spell slot and two sorcery points letting me attack three times, I can do near to 150 damage in a single round without smiting. If I Crit on any of those attacks, I’d add a 12d6 smite to it.

These are insane number. Yes, I understand I need two high level magic items to make it work. Yes, I understand giving a Fighter those two magic items and the same Feat lets them do this four times a round at this level. But the fighter can’t smite. This build puts the Warlock on par with a Paladin in burst damage.

As for defense, that’s my bane. I use a sorcerer spell slot for Mage Armor and have a 20 Dex, as well as the shield spell, so I can have up to a 23 AC if needed. Thats not bad but not ideal at this level. I do have Armor of Agathys, but that’s another spell slot.

And that’s why I chose Celestial Warlock over the Genie. Genie would give me a little more damage once a round and some neat utility (we reworked Wish, so it isn’t the be all and end all it usually is), but the Celestial gives me a ton of Temp HP, and if I do get knocked out and have to make a death save, I regain half my HP max (max is 199, so I regain 99 hp) and blind everyone around me without a save. So I essentially start each fight with 320 hp. That’s Barbarian levels of health, right there.

For the record, my attack bonus is a +13 AFTER subtracting 5 for Great Weapon Master. Thats the reason for the +3 Greatsword. I also have only used one Attunement slot, so I have room for other items to maybe shore up some other weaknesses.

As for flexibility, I have True Polymorph. I really don’t need anything more flexible than that.

I never thought a Blade Pact Warlock would wind up my favorite, and not even a Hexblade. What do y’all think? Is there something I'm missing?
 

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FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
Hello!

I wanted to share this because I was immensely surprised at how well it appeared to be, and I wanted to see if I’m missing something.

I have had the opportunity to create a lvl 20 character for a lvl 20 campaign that will be starting soon. I have run such games before, but never played one (I’m almost always a DM) and my DM told me to go nuts. We were allowed to roll our stats, and I rolled exceptionally well (a rare occurrence for me. The last character I rolled stats for wound up with a 4 and a 6.). The stats I rolled were 18, 17, 14, 13, 12, 11.

After what seemed like forever working on it, tweaking it here and there, I finally settled on an Aarikocra Divine Soul Sorcerer 3/Celestial Warlock 17.

After MUCH debate, and playing with the options, I actually, surprisingly, settled on the Pact of the Blade.

For Invocations, I took:
Agonizing Blast
Repelling Bladt
Thirsting Blade
Lifedrinker
Eldritch Smite
Master of Myriad Forms
Shroud of Shadow

For Feats, I wound up with three, including Tough from my background as new background have been coming with a starter Feat. The other two are Metamagic Adept, to get two more Metamagic options and two more Sorcery Points, and Great Weapon Master.

My Metamagics are Subtle Spell, Quicken Spellc Extended Spell and Distant Spell. I have 5 Sorcery Points, but can only convert spell slots into 3 points max. Since I have four 5th lvl warlock slots, when I take a Short Rest I can essentially convert a 5th lvl slot until a permanent 2nd lvl slot that lasts until a long rest. It’s not quite a Coffeelock, but I can have a number of extra 2nd lvl slots to help fuel Sorcery Points. And since I have Greater Restoration as a Celestial Warlock, I COULD go without a long rest if I wanted. But I only like so much Cheese.

As part of the lvl 20 game, I was also allowed to chose a Legendary item and a Very Rare item. I can have other Magic Items (were supposed to be rulers of our respective nations) but only one Rare and one Legendary.

After much deliberation, I wound up choosing a Belt of Storm Giant Strength and a +3 Greatsword.

For spells, I have a couple AOE’s, and Spirit Shroud, but mostly my spells are defensive or utility. Oh, and I took True Polymorph as my lvl 9 Arcanum and Glibness for my lvl 8 Arcanum. I’m a ruler. I need to be Charismatic.

All said and done, my initial thought when I tried this combination was that it would be lackluster. After all, I am not a Hexblade, and everyone knows the Pact of the Blade is lackluster.

But…

I get two attacks. The damage for each is as follows:

2d6+3: +3 Greatsword
+9: Belt of Storm Giant Strength
+5: Lifedrinker
+10: Great Weapon Master
2d8: Spirit Shroud

That’s 2d6+2d8+27 per hit. Thats an average of 45 damage I believe, per hit. And that’s without my smites, which add an additional 6d8, or 32 average damage.

Of course, I’ll save my Smites for when I Crit. So a Crit would wind up with 4d6+16d8+27 for an average of 123 damage. And that’s on a single hit.

Thats two resources used: Spirit Shroud and an Eldritch Smite. Thats half my Spell Slots. But Spirit Shroud is the only spell I’d be casting in this case, and even without it, I’ll be doing substantial damage every turn without needing resources.

And what’s more, I can Quicken Green Flame Blade, which would trigger my Radiant Soul feature adding an additional 5 damage, for a total of 2d6+5d8+32 (ave 65) damage plus 3d8+5 (ave 20) to a second person.

In other words, with one spell slot and two sorcery points letting me attack three times, I can do near to 150 damage in a single round without smiting. If I Crit on any of those attacks, I’d add a 12d6 smite to it.

These are insane number. Yes, I understand I need two high level magic items to make it work. Yes, I understand giving a Fighter those two magic items and the same Feat lets them do this four times a round at this level. But the fighter can’t smite. This build puts the Warlock on par with a Paladin in burst damage.

As for defense, that’s my bane. I use a sorcerer spell slot for Mage Armor and have a 20 Dex, as well as the shield spell, so I can have up to a 23 AC if needed. Thats not bad but not ideal at this level. I do have Armor of Agathys, but that’s another spell slot.

And that’s why I chose Celestial Warlock over the Genie. Genie would give me a little more damage once a round and some neat utility (we reworked Wish, so it isn’t the be all and end all it usually is), but the Celestial gives me a ton of Temp HP, and if I do get knocked out and have to make a death save, I regain half my HP max (max is 199, so I regain 99 hp) and blind everyone around me without a save. So I essentially start each fight with 320 hp. That’s Barbarian levels of health, right there.

For the record, my attack bonus is a +13 AFTER subtracting 5 for Great Weapon Master. Thats the reason for the +3 Greatsword. I also have only used one Attunement slot, so I have room for other items to maybe shore up some other weaknesses.

As for flexibility, I have True Polymorph. I really don’t need anything more flexible than that.

I never thought a Blade Pact Warlock would wind up my favorite, and not even a Hexblade. What do y’all think? Is there something I'm missing?
GWM isn’t adding much.
PAM with a +3 halberd would add a lot more.
 

tglassy

Adventurer
GWM isn’t adding much.
PAM with a +3 halberd would add a lot more.
How do you figure? Polearm master lets you have a crappy bonus action attack and lets you hit people who are coming at you. You would need Sentinel as well to keep them from getting close to you.

Great Weapon Master with this build grants a static +10 damage to every hit and still have a +13 to hit. The Bonus Action is taken up either casting a spell like Spirit Shroud or Quicken Green Flame Blade for a better attack than a d4 from the pole arm. Yeah, it uses resources, but you should have plenty of spell points from converting leftover pact slots every short rest.

So trading GWM for PAM loses 30 damage per round for...a crappy bonus action attack...
 


FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
How do you figure? Polearm master lets you have a crappy bonus action attack and lets you hit people who are coming at you. You would need Sentinel as well to keep them from getting close to you.

Great Weapon Master with this build grants a static +10 damage to every hit and still have a +13 to hit. The Bonus Action is taken up either casting a spell like Spirit Shroud or Quicken Green Flame Blade for a better attack than a d4 from the pole arm. Yeah, it uses resources, but you should have plenty of spell points from converting leftover pact slots every short rest.

So trading GWM for PAM loses 30 damage per round for...a crappy bonus action attack...
All your damage bonus apply to PAM bonus action attack. It’ll end up being 3 less damage than a regular attack does.

Regular attack with +3 halbred
D10+3
9 from belt
5 from lifedrinker
2d8 from spirit shroud
D10+2d8+17 = 31.5 for primary attack
D4+2d8+17 = 28.5 for bonus action attack

Then account for the difference in accuracy for +18 to hit vs +13.

Then account for the reaction attacks you get. And no, sentinel is nice but not required.

Or to put it in simpler terms.
86 damage with lower accuracy
Or
91 damage with higher accuracy
 

tglassy

Adventurer
All your damage bonus apply to PAM bonus action attack. It’ll end up being 3 less damage than a regular attack does.

Regular attack with +3 halbred
D10+3
9 from belt
5 from lifedrinker
2d8 from spirit shroud
D10+2d8+17 = 31.5 for primary attack
D4+2d8+17 = 28.5 for bonus action attack

Then account for the difference in accuracy for +18 to hit vs +13.

Then account for the reaction attacks you get. And no, sentinel is nice but not required.

Or to put it in simpler terms.
86 damage with lower accuracy
Or
91 damage with higher accuracy
Sure. But that 86 is from two attacks, not three. Quicken Green Flame Blade and it's another 60+ damage. Or Quicken cast any spell. PAM requires the bonus action to be valid, GWM frees up the Bonus Action for whatever I need it for, and STILL grants a bonus action attack if I manage a Crit or to reduce someone to 0 HP.

I'm still feeling GWM works out better.
 

TwoSix

Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer
Sure. But that 86 is from two attacks, not three. Quicken Green Flame Blade and it's another 60+ damage. Or Quicken cast any spell. PAM requires the bonus action to be valid, GWM frees up the Bonus Action for whatever I need it for, and STILL grants a bonus action attack if I manage a Crit or to reduce someone to 0 HP.

I'm still feeling GWM works out better.
I don't think PAM is the right call here, when you have enough sorcery points at 20th level to make BA Quickened BB/GFB a default. For leveling, maybe, but not starting at 20th.

But GWM generally isn't the right answer either, once your average damage gets into the 20s per attack. Usually the -5 to attack is costing you a 25% to get all the base damage, which doesn't make the extra 10 for the other hits a good trade off.

However.

Your character, thanks to their collection of magic items, has an incredibly high accuracy (+18), to the point where they've actually capped their accuracy versus any AC < 20. Once accuracy is capped (either with high attack bonus or low target AC), GWM becomes a better and better option again, even as the base damage expression increases.

So, if you think the DM is going to throw in a good amount of mooks or meat sponges with sub 20 AC, then GWM is still an excellent option. If you're expecting to see ACs in the mid 20s or higher (this IS a level 20 game), then I would argue GWM is a less worthwhile option.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
I don't think PAM is the right call here, when you have enough sorcery points at 20th level to make BA Quickened BB/GFB a default. For leveling, maybe, but not starting at 20th.
He has 5 sorcery points and a few level 1 and 2 slots that he mostly needs for shield spell.

maybe he can trade a warlock slot for a few more l, but it’s not like he can quicken booming blade very often and still do everything else.
But GWM generally isn't the right answer either, once your average damage gets into the 20s per attack. Usually the -5 to attack is costing you a 25% to get all the base damage, which doesn't make the extra 10 for the other hits a good trade off.

However.

Your character, thanks to their collection of magic items, has an incredibly high accuracy (+18), to the point where they've actually capped their accuracy versus any AC < 20. Once accuracy is capped (either with high attack bonus or low target AC), GWM becomes a better and better option again, even as the base damage expression increases.

So, if you think the DM is going to throw in a good amount of mooks or meat sponges with sub 20 AC, then GWM is still an excellent option. If you're expecting to see ACs in the mid 20s or higher (this IS a level 20 game), then I would argue GWM is a less worthwhile option.

Even then it’s only like 33% more damage against a 15 AC opponent and shrinks from there till PAM eventually overtakes around ac 20.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
Sure. But that 86 is from two attacks, not three. Quicken Green Flame Blade and it's another 60+ damage. Or Quicken cast any spell. PAM requires the bonus action to be valid, GWM frees up the Bonus Action for whatever I need it for, and STILL grants a bonus action attack if I manage a Crit or to reduce someone to 0 HP.

I'm still feeling GWM works out better.
Have you actually set down and computed the accuracy adjusted numbers for a good range of AC's? Maybe, do that first, because I did before I ever commented.
 

TwoSix

Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer
He has 5 sorcery points and a few level 1 and 2 slots that he mostly needs for shield spell.

maybe he can trade a warlock slot for a few more l, but it’s not like he can quicken booming blade very often and still do everything else.
I'm assuming he'd drop his level 2 slots into SP, and maybe a warlock slot as well. Should be enough to get him through 3-4 rounds of combat, and if the battle is taking much longer than that, they're probably toast.

No one is running 6-8 moderate encounters a day at level 20. :) It's all boss fights.

Even then it’s only like 33% more damage against a 15 AC opponent and shrinks from there till PAM eventually overtakes around ac 20.
I don't love GWM here either. Personally, I wouldn't take either feat because they lock you into a weapon, and this seems like the sort of game where the DM might give out an artifact weapon or two.
 

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