Pathfinder 1E Hobgoblins - the fluff doesn't match the crunch

Particle_Man

Explorer
Hobgoblins are described as "burly and muscled" in the advanced race guide, as well as "Tall, tough as nails, and strongly built". Taller than what? Goblins? The Bestiary says they are 5' tall and weigh 160 lbs.

Militaristic, war-loving, etc. OK, fine. They are meant to be lawful, disciplined orcs according to the fluff.

But the racial description of hobgoblins doesn't match that. There is no strength bonus for hobgoblins. They do get Con, which at least matches some of the fluff, but instead of Str they get Dex. They have a skill bonus is for stealth, which is nice, but more for "quiet rogue/ninja types" than for "militaristic war types".

Hobgoblin crunch doesn't make them good warriors (well, archers, but that is very specialized - you can't field an army with *only* archers). It makes them good rogues.

Hobgoblin crunch makes for good "sneaky" types. The monster that hides under the bed or in the closet (it can see in the dark, after all).

The crunch and fluff diverge in another way. In the bestiary description of hobgoblins, "Many hobgoblin tribes combine their love of warfare with keen intellects". You'd think that this would mean either an INT bonus or perhaps some kind of skill bonus related to warfare (knowledge engineering perhaps?). But that isn't the case. It is at best an "alternate racial trait". Most hobgoblins are sneaks.

So what should give way? Should the fluff be changed to match the crunch? Or should the crunch be modified to match the fluff?
 

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Ezequielramone

Explorer
I think that the "keen intellect" may refers to a particular hobgoblin. I mean they are leaded by a particular intelligent hobgoblin (one that used the 18 he rolled on int). They are militars, they can be stupid but follow an intelligent leader.
The "strong thing"... well, having +2 DEX and +2 CON doesn't mean that those are the only stats over 10. They can have 15 STR, but normaly not less than 12 DEX. I just saw a Samurai hobgoblin lvl 4 with 20 STR.
The flavor isn't always accompanied by ruled but by the way you play, in this case by assigning a high score to STR.
 

Starfox

Hero
I agree the fluff and crunch of hobgoblins come from different sources.

The fluff is as you describe it. It would really work better on something more orc-like. The fluff is about hobgoblin in the sense of a phantasmal nightmare goblin, which is an interesting trope but already covered with bugbears.
 

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