D&D 5E Anyone else think the Bard concept is just silly?

Brandegoris · Apr 13, 2017

I hate Bards. The only bards I like are the ones that play music in taverns

Every time I think of a dude dancing and spouting poetry to " inspire " me while I am being attacked by trolls I just cringe.
If that happened in real life I would stop attacking the trolls immediately and bet the crap outta the singing useless weirdo..
The whole concept is just too silly to even visualize.
Even one that is fighting is silly. Some fighting, singing weirdo. I think players should have to write down what the dude is singing so we can all have an example of how it is " Inspiring". LOLOL

Capn Charlie · Apr 13, 2017

While obvious troll is painfully obvious, I must say that I have a general dislike for the thematics of bard as it is typically done. I love the idea of an adventuring loremaster and lothario, even with some music, but as it is usually done... it just fails in my mind's eye.

Their plan is to go down into dungeons, and sing at the monsters. Sing. I dunno man, I dunno.

KahlessNestor · Apr 13, 2017

Um...music as magic is a big part of fantasy literature. It's what created Arda in the Silmarillian. Pied Piper of Hamlin, etc. I don't know why you would think it silly. Even in our mundane world music is magical and inspiring.

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Capn Charlie · Apr 13, 2017

KahlessNestor said:
Um...music as magic is a big part of fantasy literature. It's what created Arda in the Silmarillian. Pied Piper of Hamlin, etc. I don't know why you would think it silly. Even in our mundane world music is magical and inspiring.

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I can dig it as an archetype, it would be a cool tradition for wizards, or bloodline for sorcerers, or even a cleric domain (you hear the songs of the heavens), but it just seems so narrow to be an entire class.

Then again, I think there should be four classes, and everything should be an archetype. (Warrior, Mage, Priest, Rogue)

Tony Vargas · Apr 13, 2017

The Bard concept has a strong presence in myth/legend and even history.
The D&D implementation of it may have been a little off at times. The 1e proto-PrC Bard was actually on target in some ways like the Druid connection. The 2e and 3e versions went a little squirrelly, in the way the OP describes, perhaps. The 4e & 5e versions have downplayed that whole accompanying yourself on the lute to give your party bonuses bit, anyway.

cbwjm · Apr 13, 2017

Even in 2e, music didn't seem to be the whole concept of the bard. They had similar abilities to the 5e bard: inspiration and countercharm. They could influence reactions if given a chance to perform although that could just as easily be an impassioned speech instead of a musical performance. Otherwise, they had wizard spells, loremastery (what I consider one of their most iconic abilities), some rogue skills, and better combat skills than a rogue through better weapon and armour choices.

Brandegoris · Apr 13, 2017

Capn Charlie said:
While obvious troll is painfully obvious, I must say that I have a general dislike for the thematics of bard as it is typically done. I love the idea of an adventuring loremaster and lothario, even with some music, but as it is usually done... it just fails in my mind's eye.

Their plan is to go down into dungeons, and sing at the monsters. Sing. I dunno man, I dunno.

I am not trolling man. LOL
I really want to know what people think about this. I mean we barely have anyone play a bard in our group because the concept is just so silly. I wanna know who else feels that way or if my group is the weird one

The Crimson Binome · Apr 13, 2017

If your entire career relies on your knowing stuff, then it makes sense that you would learn some magic at some point, since magic is just knowledge. Skilled bards should have some magical ability.

Since you aren't spending your entire life in a tower with a bunch of scrolls, then it makes sense that you would pick up the basics of how to defend yourself with weapons. Bards should not be as bad at fighting as wizards are.

Since you aren't a professional warrior, and you don't have enough magic to really rely on it, then it makes sense that you would learn how to hide and avoid fights.

As a whole, the bard class makes plenty of sense, as it was presented in the AD&D 2E PHB - it's the class which learned a little bit of everything, and incidentally could play an instrument although that pretty much never mattered.

What the class has since devolved into is just a jumbled mess of pointless high-magic mumbo-jumbo that doesn't make any sense outside of the Forgotten Realms.

Brandegoris · Apr 13, 2017

Saelorn said:
If your entire career relies on your knowing stuff, then it makes sense that you would learn some magic at some point, since magic is just knowledge. Skilled bards should have some magical ability.

Since you aren't spending your entire life in a tower with a bunch of scrolls, then it makes sense that you would pick up the basics of how to defend yourself with weapons. Bards should not be as bad at fighting as wizards are.

Since you aren't a professional warrior, and you don't have enough magic to really rely on it, then it makes sense that you would learn how to hide and avoid fights.

As a whole, the bard class makes plenty of sense, as it was presented in the AD&D 2E PHB - it's the class which learned a little bit of everything, and incidentally could play an instrument although that pretty much never mattered.

What the class has since devolved into is just a jumbled mess of pointless high-magic mumbo-jumbo that doesn't make any sense outside of the Forgotten Realms.

Agreed. I mean I can see the Original Celtic bard being cool. But its Mostly a Lore class ( with some fighting ability and magic), but I just cant dig the Singing in Combat crap! LOL

Capn Charlie · Apr 13, 2017

Saelorn said:
If your entire career relies on your knowing stuff, then it makes sense that you would learn some magic at some point, since magic is just knowledge. Skilled bards should have some magical ability.

Since you aren't spending your entire life in a tower with a bunch of scrolls, then it makes sense that you would pick up the basics of how to defend yourself with weapons. Bards should not be as bad at fighting as wizards are.

Since you aren't a professional warrior, and you don't have enough magic to really rely on it, then it makes sense that you would learn how to hide and avoid fights.

As a whole, the bard class makes plenty of sense, as it was presented in the AD&D 2E PHB - it's the class which learned a little bit of everything, and incidentally could play an instrument although that pretty much never mattered.

What the class has since devolved into is just a jumbled mess of pointless high-magic mumbo-jumbo that doesn't make any sense outside of the Forgotten Realms.

I think you hit the nail on the head, as I was sitting here inventorying all of my bardic lore (as it were) that was the only setting where they really make sense as written these days.

Bard as jack of all trades, including playing a guitar for wenching/louting purposes... way cooler than the primary caster they are now. I mean, bards get level 9s.

As time has passed I have put more and more of the "bard uses buffs" mantle onto "leader of men" archetypes, where it just seems to make more sense. I did a skald archetype for barbarian recently that was a lot of fun, and made a decent amount of sense compared to the default we have now for "magic music guy".