How to keep women in the game?

doctorbadwolf said:

I don't miss those days. Luckily for me, they were brief, mostly Junior High School. By HS I had a diverse group of friends, and went to a school that didn't have the social cliques of teen movies.

Click to expand...

Yeah, for me it was most of high school and a few years afterward. I think it's less common today - back then you didn't have the Internet and all the online venues for gaming (Roll20, Fantasygrounds, etc.)

Gradine said:

I see! Then you would have definitely liked the communism thread!

It did not have an especially long shelf-life, however.

Click to expand...

Of course, there's a good chance I'd have gotten banned in the process, too. But, missed opportunities are like walking through a fart. Best to just keep on moving.

Gradine said:

I see! Then you would have definitely liked the communism thread!

It did not have an especially long shelf-life, however.

Click to expand...

No, it wasn't going to end well... Pleased it got closed

Sent from my SM-G901F using Tapatalk

doctorbadwolf said:

I don't know, man. I really enjoy a pissing off the sort of people who are super scared of the dirty pinko commies. It's...kind of my animus.

I don't love communism discussions for the chance to wax philosophical about how great communism is.
Nah, I love commie threads because they're full of people who hate, but have very, very, very limited understanding of what communism actually even is.

It's...the best. I literally don't even know why, I just really like poking at jingoist McCarthy types. It's like candy with a crack center.

Click to expand...

As someone living in a post-communist nation (Hungary) and feeling every day it's impact on the society and also reading about it a considerable amount for that reason, my opinion is that Americans and Western Europeans, no offense, but sometimes have a very-very weird romantic picture about communism on the left and a very silly mustache-twirling villain one on the right.

Caliban said:

Oh, I can. Been there, done that. But usually because the DM and the players all come from a similar background (or are just that self involved) and the DM assumes everyone else in the group are going to want the same things they want out of the game and doesn't even think about discussing it.

Or because the DM says "I'm running this kind of game, otherwise I'm not DM'ing". This is more likely in a situation where there is a scarcity of willing DM's and you are willing to try anything just so you can play. Being a social outsider can make you willing to put up with a lot of stuff.

Click to expand...

Sure, that makes sense too. For example, when we started our Shadowrun campaign, we all knew each other for years, and have a similar social background, so we didn't have trouble integrating controversial topics, but if we'd get a new player, maybe someone who might be potentially impacted in a different way than us with those topics IRL, we'd discuss it. If I'd start a new campaign with these kind of topics in it, with new/unknown players, I'd definitely discuss them.

doctorbadwolf said:

I don't know, man. I really enjoy a pissing off the sort of people who are super scared of the dirty pinko commies. It's...kind of my animus.

I don't love communism discussions for the chance to wax philosophical about how great communism is.
Nah, I love commie threads because they're full of people who hate, but have very, very, very limited understanding of what communism actually even is.

It's...the best. I literally don't even know why, I just really like poking at jingoist McCarthy types. It's like candy with a crack center.

Click to expand...

Drop the politics. The other thread was closed for a reason. And probably best not boast how you want to troll other members.

OK, [MENTION=1]Morrus[/MENTION], I'll stop doing the thing I wasn't doing.

doctorbadwolf said:

OK, [MENTION=1]Morrus[/MENTION], I'll stop doing the thing I wasn't doing.

Click to expand...

Please do not argue with moderation in-thread. You know the rules. Please do not post in this thread again.

aramis erak said:

As for historical vs non, not everyone plays only D&D... so if one's dissmissiveness of the concept is based upon the crazy that is D&D, realize that's your hangup for being stuck on D&D, not a flaw in those that like historical, semi-historical, or alternate-history games.

Pendragon is much more realistic than D&D in a great many ways... including combat lethality... and includes modeling the physical differences and societal learned skills differences in the core rules. (Women have a smaller size, and higher dex, and different starting skill levels, as well as several things they can do without losing glory that men lose glory for doing)

Click to expand...

Who said anything about D&D? Which, by the way, is pretty much a non-standard in terms of realism; "more realistic than D&D" is like saying "safer than eating mercury".

Pendragon is an odd choice to bring out as a champion of History and Realism, since it's an RPG explicitly set in a mythology. And not just a mythology, but a very modernist view of Arthurian myth that leaves out unpleasant bits that we 21st century gamers tend to find problematic -cf. Le Morte d'Arthur. It's handwavy history and intended to evoke a particular set of feelings and play style. Realism does and will take a back seat to the spirit of the game and story.

But you're really making the point you're grumbling about, which is that outside of a handful of 'strictly accurate' RPGs, we're all picking and choosing how realistic we're going to be, and what "realistic" elements we care about vs. the ones that we discard. There's always that one guy who has no problem with Dumbo being a flying elephant, but can't get past him doing a power dive when for the entire movie he's been portrayed as a glider. Or, in game terms, the GM who is fine with a female PC hurling fireballs or overpowering seasoned mercenaries with a single backstab, but loses suspension of disbelief if she can be as strong as any man. And there's nothing wrong with that - it's a matter of preference, not of Game Law.

It does mean, though, that when a group says that they do X because they must rather than because they choose to, many people will notice the transparency and lack of respect in that fiction, and will seek fun elsewhere.

Try to have more than one female participant in the group. No one likes to be the only one and with the power of two, I think potential problems are more likely to solve themselves.

You answered your own question - you ran a hack'n'slash game.

Game of Thrones has as many female fans as male because it caters to everyone - hack, slash, sex, blood, family, betrayal, intrigue, dragons, tragedy, loyalty, underdogs and ruthlessness. It's nuanced, and a basic dungeon bash game isn't.

Women like nuanced, as do a lot of men by the way. A few men like hacking through orcs, but it's a lot better when the Orcs ambushed you because you have been betrayed by the Baron and he's secretly looking to supplant the queen due to being in love with her and being publically spurned at the last Winter Court.

Get sophisticated...

As for the rest - I am sure you know that avoiding even passive sexism and other REALLY contentious stuff is a good idea too - for any party... played by anyone...