Garthanos
Arcadian Knight
I will likely be making those as Grandmaster Trainings
with Transcendental Meditation as a Martial practice.
Will the real martial artist please stand up...
I will likely be making those as Grandmaster Trainings
with Transcendental Meditation as a Martial practice.
Garthanos
Arcadian Knight
I will likely be making those as Grandmaster Trainings
with Transcendental Meditation as a Martial practice.
Garthanos
Arcadian Knight
What would you describe the Kame-Hame-Ha attack as doing... maybe it works better if the attacker is bloodied.
Not something particularly hard to do. In pre-4e era, it would be a line-shaped attack. In 4e… One could argue for a blast, but it doesn’t look like one. A ranged force attack (or even radiant) would do the trick. In addition, the monk actually has to yell “Kame-Hame-Ha!” in order to function. Ok, that was a joke, but the rest is serious.
Garthanos
Arcadian Knight
Since it seems a signature attack I think it deserves a little attention
appropriate knockback effects and the like.yes I was thinking a line of N squares (like a wall would be mechanically analogous actually)
One might pull something in either by a theme or multi-classing, if you wanted to stay with already created stuff.
Or mayhaps make something like a Wuxian Theme....
We could discuss how an ideal Ki/Chi power source might work?
The association of Chi / Ki with life force is a very interesting cross connect with how I flavor some of the Conlock powers - I like that one can have powers based on Con in 4e. Many of the powerful anime characters like Naruto are big on Con.
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AbdulAlhazred
Legend
I think its colorable as such, kinda. Its definitely marginal, but so is the classic D&D Fighter, who can fall 100' and withstand 20 arrows without being measurably impeded (albeit you can interpret such things as other than superhuman durability to some extent, but it becomes a stretch after name level).
AbdulAlhazred
Legend
Of course I meant “Monks” in the RPG culture sense. Real monks are religious people. To the point that D&D ought to make them divine characters: apparently, this was the norm on 2e. I remember the 1e Monk having several supernatural abilities, the book just didn’t explain it; but it was there.
As far as I know, Batman transitioned from Charles Atlas Superpower to Badass Normal at some point in history. In fact, on its own page, Batman is called The Badass Normal. That happens.
There are some mistakes on that site when it comes to similar tropes. Some examples are doubled in both tropes despite those tropes being different. 4e’s martial classes are mentioned in both tropes. That also happens. Careful reading of the pages and examples can give you the difference.
Anyway, moving back to the main point…
I’m not arguing against a pure martial hand-to-hand class: it’s a cool class. Most of the 3.5 Monk’s abilities can be explained in martial terms, with some changes on mechanics, I grant you. I can also see someone learning the language of animals; D&D just doesn’t work that way, since those abilities are class-based or spell-based magical abilities. Nevertheless, it should: it is not such a powerful ability to be usable only once in a day or something like that. Most animals aren’t that bright, anyway.
I just always wondered why my Monk called Sun Wukong couldn’t launch a Kame-Hame-Ha, even with a different name. Monks in RPGs tend to have a very strong mystical/supernatural theme with them.
Yeah, there are some oddities in 4e’s martial powers, but the vast majority of them were just badass stuff. I think Martial healing itself is strange and not to my taste (and I’m a 4e fan); they will work slightly different differently in my game. However, of course, that brings back Lots of HP discussions, so let’s avoid that.
However, when monks are supernatural, they are usually based on Qi, not psionics. That choice had a lot of context to happen, ultimately being a consequence of design space.
So, I guess the real fight here is Ki Monk vs. Pure-Martial Monk. That is a hard choice to make. I’m not against having 50+ classes so splitting them sounds like a good idea.
I do have one question: if monks don’t have Qi stuff, who will? That seems a great dilemma for me; monks are perfect for that.
However, I think this is a tangential point and a discussion not really needed here. Forgive me for such interruption; sometimes I just have to do this just because. I’ll take a time to read this class (and re-read Pathfinder’s Brawler hybrid class), and them reflect more about that.
…
Really, guys, why every monk needs to know kung-fu? Hahahahahahahaha.
Can you separate 'Qi' from 'Martial'? IMHO they are basically the same thing. Supreme capability arising out of uttermost inner discipline and focus, coupled with extreme physical and mental training. Isn't some fighter power like say Unbreakable just exactly the same sort of concept as the 1e Monk is immune to poison? Its expressed in a different sort of game mechanical terms, with somewhat different limitations and uses, but in effect when a 4e fighter uses that power and shirks off damage he's saying basically the same thing the 1e monk is saying when he ignores deadly poisons. I certainly would agree that the thematics are slightly different there, but nobody would quibble with a fighter power that granted poison immunity for a limited time! (heck, there may well be one for all I know).
AbdulAlhazred
Legend
What makes him more of a Samurai than any other fighter? The Japanese warrior pattern would fight with weapons, certainly. In fact any unarmed/unarmored fighting concept was only a 19th Century thing that came about after their role in warfare was obsolete and they didn't have access to armor (or sometimes even arms) anymore. A Samurai would be master of the naginata, the daikyu, and perhaps one or more of several styles of sword depending on the period. They might also be familiar with a few other weapons, but its not likely. They certainly wouldn't fight unarmed unless forced to do so.
The dividing line between Martial, Qi, and Psionic is pretty hazy. They are all 'internal power', but just with slightly different thematics. Psionics are all sci-fantasy kind of modernistic 'mind over matter' (and could border into concepts like the Sorcerer if you think about it). Qi is themed 'eastern' and explained as arcane training/mastery of ancient techniques mixed with self discipline (and thus verges into things like wizards or clerics). Martial picks up the 'Charles Atlas Superpower' and 'Bad Assery' bits, but also verges into and is hard to distinguish from Qi (Bruce Wayne for instance constantly trains his mind and body, though in most sources he doesn't utilize 'eastern' techniques to do so). Heck, Charles Atlas constantly trained, its the trope, but if you compare that to a Shaolin Monk, is there really any light between the two? Charles Xavier did it all by standing around and exercising his mind, purely, so we can that these things cannot totally be lumped together, but they're still all merging at some point.
In a sense maybe 'power source' wasn't that great an idea. I mean, it works in some fashion to generally categorize, but its not a 'clean' facet. Divine and Arcane (and Elemental, really Shadow too) don't cleanly separate either. I think that its best to think about it in 4e as literally SOURCE in a very simple way and just decree that the universe works this way. You can get pretty much the same effect from Psionic/Qi as you can from Martial, but they are still manifestations of fundamentally different kinds of power.
That kind of says to me that while multi-sourced classes aren't ridiculous, they can exist according to the paradigm, they may not really be the best thematics. It might be better to just say "well, I achieved this melee weapon fighting effect using divine power, that's just how my class works!"
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