D&D 5E Problems with Tales from the Yawning Portal

pukunui · Jun 27, 2017

James Gasik said:
Wouldn't that make Kazit Gul as powerful as Acererak in Tomb of Horrors?

Yes, I suppose so. Isn't he meant to be something of an homage to Acererak anyway, though? The sidebar in the MM says that "Acererak or another demilich like him" (my emphasis) can have the Trap Soul action.

Kazit Gul did build the Doomvault. It was originally his lair. And it's even bigger than the Tomb of Horrors, so why couldn't he be like Acererak?

The main reason I'm thinking he ought to have the Trap Soul action is this bit:

The gems that contain souls gleam with inner light. If such a gem is crushed, the soul is released. The soul departs for the afterlife unless its body is intact and within 10 feet of the crushed gem.

Souls only remain trapped in a demilich's gems for 24 hours, at which point they are devoured. So unless he's just fed on some other creatures before the PCs fight him, the above quote is most likely referring to if any of the PCs or their allies get their souls trapped in Gul's teeth gems.

James Gasik · Jun 27, 2017

Given that Acererak is the final encounter of the highest level adventure in The Yawning Portal, Kazit Gul should probably be, I don't know, easier? I mean, I know the real challenge of the Tomb of Horrors isn't Acererak, but his stupidly dangerous tomb full of stupidly dangerous traps, but it just feels weird that he wouldn't be more of a direct threat than an encounter in an adventure pitched to lower level characters.

I can't give any lore or rules reason why or why you shouldn't run Kazit as a full-strength Demilich, a very strong party might require such an encounter. It'd just be weird if that same party later came upon the Tomb of Horrors, braved it's dangers, and came across..."_another_ demilich? Didn't we already do this?"

I mean, Acererak doesn't even have the lair traits of a Demilich (the lair action and trap the soul, but he's still not full powered, and he's supposed to be one of the first Demiliches around).

jasper · Jun 27, 2017

James Gasik said:
Given that Acererak is the final encounter of the highest level adventure in The Yawning Portal, Kazit Gul should probably be, I don't know, easier? I mean, I know the real challenge of the Tomb of Horrors isn't Acererak, but his stupidly dangerous tomb full of stupidly dangerous traps, but it just feels weird that he wouldn't be more of a direct threat than an encounter in an adventure pitched to lower level characters.

I can't give any lore or rules reason why or why you shouldn't run Kazit as a full-strength Demilich, a very strong party might require such an encounter. It'd just be weird if that same party later came upon the Tomb of Horrors, braved it's dangers, and came across..."_another_ demilich? Didn't we already do this?"

....

No Kazit should not be easier. You are falling into the trap of each dungeon leads to the next more powerful one. The book is a shotgun of SEPERATE adventures. Treat as such.

James Gasik · Jun 27, 2017

But Tomb of Horrors is intended for higher level characters, why is it a trap to think it should be harder than one intended to bring characters from 9th to 11th level?

I mean, they can totally be played that way, as the second paragraph of "Creating a Campaign" on page 5 indicates (and running them in order, with a few side adventures such as One Thousand Tiny Deaths and Redemption of Kelvan, is the intent for this season of Adventurer's League, though that's only tangentially relevant to the discussion of the book itself).

On a side note, odd little bit of treasure on page 89: In room 46 (Tlazoteotl), there is an urn that holds the dried heart of a mighty yuan-ti. "Any character who eats the entire thing gets the permanent ability to understand the speech of snakes and yuan-ti."

pukunui · Jun 27, 2017

It is worth noting that Acererak's entry in Tomb of Horrors does specifically state that he has the Trap the Soul action, as well as access to lair actions, whereas Kazit Gul does not. It's just the paragraph I quoted above that makes me think he ought to at least have Trap the Soul.

I think you can make a good case for Gul not having lair actions, though, since the Doomvault's not really his lair anymore. Szass Tam has commandeered it and reduced Gul to the status of guardian of the phylactery vault.

If one runs Gul as a normal demilich with no optional extras, then the paragraph talking about releasing souls by crushing his gem teeth will have to be ignored.

James Gasik · Jul 6, 2017

Noticed something else about the sleep poison. On page 75, you can mix up a vial of the stuff and drink it. The text "dispel magic, using a 7th-level spell slot, can also end the effect" is repeated here. So it's not talking about dispel magic removing the poison gas cloud in the tomb- it's literally presented as a way to get someone to stop sleeping.

If the intent of this is that "removing the poison cures you and makes you immune to the poison for an hour, oh and, also, by the way, you can cure someone with an impossible to cast (at your level) spell", I'm completely confused at the waste of text.

pukunui · Jul 6, 2017

Yes, that does seem problematic. One ought to be able to dispel it with a 3rd-level casting and a successful DC 17 spellcasting ability check.

pukunui · Jul 8, 2017

Found an error in White Plume Mountain: On page 107, in the terraced aquarium's treasure section, it reads: "A safe is set in the north wall opposite the door on the bottom tier. If it is opened incorrectly (that is, the trap not removed), a vibration device in the wall ..."

OK, so the only way to open the safe correctly is to remove the trap. But there's no guidance given on how to detect the trap even, let alone how to remove it. Huh.

James Gasik · Jul 8, 2017

Yeah, that's directly from S2. Which was written in an era where Thieves had a % chance to find and remove traps based on their level + Dexterity. There's no other traps in the adventure to compare to, sadly (there's no way around Snarla's trapped chest other than speaking her magic word- or maybe dispel magic). A lot of the traps in Hidden Shrine are set at DC 20, that's probably fair for this adventure. We're not quite at Tier 3 yet, where they have things like invisible chests with glyphs of warding inside them that are triggered when the chests are opened (I think that was DDAL05-08, Durlag's Tower).

pukunui · Jul 19, 2017

Found a few other things during another read-through of The Sunless Citadel:

6. Old Approach: I'm confused by the explanation of the dragon door locks:

The door ... has a mechanical lock as well as an arcane lock spell cast on it. The Strength (Athletics) check to defeat the arcane lock is DC 30, and the Dexterity check to bypass the magical lock using thieves' tools is DC 25.

This seems to suggest that you can either brute-force your way through the magical lock or use thieves' tools to disable it. However, I think it's simply an error, with the thieves' tools check being for the mechanical lock, not the magical one.

10. Honor Guard: The map indicates that there is a statue in the southwestern alcove despite the fact that the text explicitly states that there isn't one there, since that is where the quasit had originally been bound.

23. Underdark Access: The read-aloud text for this room incorrectly puts the Underdark tunnel on the east side of this room.

30. Mama Rat: The map suggests that this room is an open balcony with a parapet. The room's description (pg 21) makes no mention of this. It's worth noting that in the original adventure, the read-aloud text states that the north wall is smashed open, and the map indicates that there is indeed a hole in the wall. Since the room serves as a rat lair, I think that makes more sense than making it an "outdoor" space.

D&D 5E Problems with Tales from the Yawning Portal

pukunui

Legend

James Gasik

We don't talk about Pun-Pun

jasper

Rotten DM

James Gasik

We don't talk about Pun-Pun

pukunui

Legend

James Gasik

We don't talk about Pun-Pun

pukunui

Legend

pukunui

Legend

James Gasik

We don't talk about Pun-Pun

pukunui

Legend

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