D&D 5E Decent Warlock build

So, I'm making a Warlock to replace my previous character. My problem is that, frankly, that previous character was immensely powerful due to our adventures up to date and the things he ended up with and the build I perfected over 10 levels of play.

Now I need to make a level 12 warlock with nothing but white room assumptions on how effective my choices are going to end up, and I feel nervous about if there are any obvious mistakes I'm making (never played a warlock before)

So, here's what I've got.


Character is a riff off of the normal Fiend Pact Warlock, in that he devoured his patron who was a weak demon and is trying to build a cult around himself to raise himself as a demon lord or archdevil (Not sure it matters). The party is bent pretty heavily towards evil which is why my previous character left, so I doubt this is going to cause too many problems, and that's if they ever figure it out.


Yuan-Ti Pureblood (Volo's Guide) Warlock of the Tome, Fiend Pact.

Rolled Stats:

Str: 10
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 14
Wis: 12
Cha: 18

87 hit points, 18 AC

Feats: Moderately Armored, Actor, War Caster

Invocations: Aspect of the Moon, Agonizing Blast, Repelling Blast, Frost Lance, Mask of Many Faces, Book of Ancient Secrets

For my Book, he gave me two additional rituals for a total of 4. So I have Alarm and Tenser's Floating Disc for my first levels followed with Animal Messenger and Magic Mouth.

I considered a few other spells, but we have a pet heavy party (Ranger, Wizard with Find Familiar and the Paladin has a Wraith) so Find Familiar seemed obsolete. The Wizard and Paladin both have Detect Magic and Identify (Paladin has a magic eye that makes these at-will) so those two would also seem to be covered by the party and I don't know if they are worth stacking again.


Cantrips: Poison Spray (from Yuan-Ti), Eldritch Blast, Shocking Grasp, Minor Illusion, Thaumaturgy, Prestidigitation, Guidance, Virtue [Virtue is an interesting one for my cult plans, the Temp Hp can be used to make people able to do things like walk thru fire or survive being stabbed. Definitely good for the revival style of "look what powers faith provides") ]

Yuan-Ti also gives me a 1/day Suggestion

Spells: Comprehend Languages (added into my ritual book), Hex, Scorching Ray, Blight, Crown of Madness, Hunger of Hadar, MAjor Image, Misty Step, Banishment, Hypnotic Pattern, Dream

Though I do plan on asking my DM if he will allow me to swap Banishment for Evard's Black Tentacles (which is not a standard warlock spell for some reason)

Eyebite is my first Arcanum.

He is also allowing me two magic items, so I took a Rod of the Pact Keeper +2 and a Luckstone



So, the basic plan in combat is Hex and Eldritch blast, maybe Eldritch Blast and one of my area spells if we end up fighting more than one creature that is above CR 2 (not always a guarantee with this DM)


Out of Combat, I'm a chameleon who can look and sound like anyone, I can use Animal Messenger or Magic Mouth to spread messages throughout any place we end up staying. Magic Mouth plus my other illusions and cantrips makes for a magic show of crazy proportions to convince dumb commoners of my "patrons" power. Dream is amazing for terrorizing people who I just happen to see. Aspect of the Moon means I don't need sleep anymore, so I can spend that time casting spells or preparing more rituals of illusions. Those extra few hours could allow me to get up to all sorts of mischief I imagine.

But, like I said, I'm not certain if this is a decent build or not. Jumping in at level 12 is rough with a class like warlock where you really need to get used to the tools in your toolbox.

It seems like you took a lot of invocations to add utility to your Eldritch Blast, so your character will at least be as effective as a simply built archer fighter at this point. Hex is mostly an all day spell if you don't lose concentration, so your base at-will damage will be solid when you can focus fire on a single foe.

Your lack of fireball concerns me, as it would be a big boon for fights with large numbers of enemies. Yes, you can spread your Eldritch Blast out, but only to three targets. But I'm evocation happy.

Misty step is a good use for your bonus action, but it's lack of scaling will mean you probably won't want to cast it unless absolutely necessary.

I think your character should be fine. Their backstory and motivations sound fun too.


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That all looks pretty solid, With EB you are never going to lack a good option in combat, and it seems like you have a solid handle on how you want to act out of combat, so no real issues there. Just remember you can change a spell and invocation whenever you level up (Except Mystic Arcanum I think) so you should be able to remove things that aren't working for you.

Crown of madness, Hunger of Hadar, and Hypnotic Pattern are on the watch list for me as warlock spells because they have no scaling or out of combat utility. Pattern is definitely good enough even if you don't get any scaling, but the other two are not unusually good, I would see how you like them and swap if necessary.

It's hard to build a bad warlock. Use about 1 spell per battle, then eldrich blast. The biggest thing to manage is your concentration slot. You can't have hex and hypnotic pattern going on at the same time.


Your repelling blast + frost lance will do a good job keeping enemies away, which works well with your mostly ranged party. You and/or your wizard should consider taking zone spells like cloud of daggers, hungar of hadar, and firewall. Then you can blast people into the area for extra damage.

I would trade out eyebite for mass suggestion (doesn't take concentration), and scorching ray for fireball (you already have hex and blight for single target damage).

Crown of Madness is strong but can be tricky to use, so pay attention to initiative and use it on the guy who's going next. Otherwise the enemy will have time to move away. Though remember, an enemy wizard makeing a melee attack against your paladin, or a familiar can work too. You might consider replacing it with something simpiler.

Your paladin should be pretty resistant, possibly immune to hypnotic pattern. So friendly fire can be an appropriate stradegy at times. Also consider fear, which he and any pet next to him is immune to, so no friendly fire issues at all.

You can also get/give rituals to the wizard. So make sure to trade.

Xeviat said:

It seems like you took a lot of invocations to add utility to your Eldritch Blast, so your character will at least be as effective as a simply built archer fighter at this point. Hex is mostly an all day spell if you don't lose concentration, so your base at-will damage will be solid when you can focus fire on a single foe.

Your lack of fireball concerns me, as it would be a big boon for fights with large numbers of enemies. Yes, you can spread your Eldritch Blast out, but only to three targets. But I'm evocation happy.

Misty step is a good use for your bonus action, but it's lack of scaling will mean you probably won't want to cast it unless absolutely necessary.

I think your character should be fine. Their backstory and motivations sound fun too.

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I considered Fireball, but I was worried about blasting my allies. Our combats up to date have either had very low numbers of enemies, or involved us scattering amongst the enemies.

Also, I think the math on Hunger of Hadar makes it better than fireball after a round or two, and I can knock people back into it even after they escape.

I agree with Misty Step, but my last character spent an entire last fight tied up and unable to do anything because of poor rolls. Being only a verbal spell, Misty Step is my panic button spell in case things get terrible.

kbrakke said:

That all looks pretty solid, With EB you are never going to lack a good option in combat, and it seems like you have a solid handle on how you want to act out of combat, so no real issues there. Just remember you can change a spell and invocation whenever you level up (Except Mystic Arcanum I think) so you should be able to remove things that aren't working for you.

Crown of madness, Hunger of Hadar, and Hypnotic Pattern are on the watch list for me as warlock spells because they have no scaling or out of combat utility. Pattern is definitely good enough even if you don't get any scaling, but the other two are not unusually good, I would see how you like them and swap if necessary.

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I’ll admit, I’m mostly keeping Crown of Madness for out of combat insanity. The idea of casting it on a cultist during a meeting is just too visually appealing for me.

I may end up switching it, but what would I take in it’s place? That’s a rough thing I’m coming to realize, with limited slots per rest and no lower slots, most of my spells are a hard pill to swallow because they do not scale.

mellored said:

It's hard to build a bad warlock. Use about 1 spell per battle, then eldrich blast. The biggest thing to manage is your concentration slot. You can't have hex and hypnotic pattern going on at the same time.


Your repelling blast + frost lance will do a good job keeping enemies away, which works well with your mostly ranged party. You and/or your wizard should consider taking zone spells like cloud of daggers, hungar of hadar, and firewall. Then you can blast people into the area for extra damage.

I would trade out eyebite for mass suggestion (doesn't take concentration), and scorching ray for fireball (you already have hex and blight for single target damage).

Crown of Madness is strong but can be tricky to use, so pay attention to initiative and use it on the guy who's going next. Otherwise the enemy will have time to move away. Though remember, an enemy wizard makeing a melee attack against your paladin, or a familiar can work too. You might consider replacing it with something simpiler.

Your paladin should be pretty resistant, possibly immune to hypnotic pattern. So friendly fire can be an appropriate stradegy at times. Also consider fear, which he and any pet next to him is immune to, so no friendly fire issues at all.

You can also get/give rituals to the wizard. So make sure to trade.

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Right… our wizard is… odd.

He built a Wizard/Barbarian, 4/8 mix I think at the moment.

Storywise it is decent, and I do plan on getting some rituals from him, but he almost never casts a big spell in combat and tends to be in the front raging. So, I doubt I can rely on him providing any zones for me to work with.

I’ve been seriously torn between Mass Suggestion and Eyebite. I love Eyebite as a spell, because you can keep targeting the same creature every turn as long as they don’t make the save. Making them fall asleep, allowing a melee person to whack them, then dropping them asleep again, I find it very powerful.

Then again, like you said, Mass Suggestion is non-concentration, and if I’m clever enough, can cause a lot of problems in the battlefield, plus it fits my cult leader vibe.

I’ve waffled on this one a lot.


Same with Scorching Ray, I don’t think I would trade it for fireball (see above on my thoughts about fireball) and with six beams Scorching Ray looks really good. Not only is it viable single target, but I can choose to make it a multi-target as well, which is a good amount of flexibility. I thought as compared to the explosion of Fireball which runs the risk of harming allies as well.

Considered Fear, but being a close range spell that doesn’t scale too well I didn’t figure it worth taking. A 5th level slot for a 30 ft cone centered on me seemed like a risky move. Also, the Paladin multi-classed into shadow sorcerer before level 7, so the only aura they have is their one for saving throws. They've been playing an oathbreaker this whole time (who despises evil and hates the gods but is also a psychopath, it's a messed up character) and the level 7 aura would give the undead and fiends we've been fighting hefty bonuses, so it was seen as too risky.

Chaosmancer said:

I may end up switching it, but what would I take in it’s place? That’s a rough thing I’m coming to realize, with limited slots per rest and no lower slots, most of my spells are a hard pill to swallow because they do not scale.

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Firewall, fireball, armor of agathys.

He built a Wizard/Barbarian, 4/8 mix I think at the moment.

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That changes the dynamic a bit, since you don't necessarily want to shove people away from the barbarian as much as you would a wizard.

Same with Scorching Ray, I don’t think I would trade it for fireball (see above on my thoughts about fireball) and with six beams Scorching Ray looks really good. Not only is it viable single target, but I can choose to make it a multi-target as well, which is a good amount of flexibility. I thought as compared to the explosion of Fireball which runs the risk of harming allies as well.

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Assuming a 60% fireball rate, and a 70% (+2 rod) hit rate.

Fireball does 10d6, and half on a save = 28 damage to each target.
Scorching ray does 12d6, nothing on miss = 29.4 damage, total.
Eldrich blast does 3d10+12, nothng on a miss = 19.95 damage.
+ hex does 3d10+3d6+12, nothing on a miss = 27.3


Against a single target, SR is just barely better hex.
Against multiple targets, fireball.
So SR is only good for low HP spread out targets, which EB should cover reasonably well.


I would skip fear though since you have 2 melee and no immunity.

mellored said:

Firewall, fireball, armor of agathys.

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I totally missed that I was high enough level to grab wall of fire. That might be worth switching something out for

Armor of Agathys though, I'm not certain. I love it, but Dark One's Blessing is 16 temp hp, and doesn't stack, plus Armor of Agathys only reacts to melee attacks. If my entire goal is to avoid being in melee then Armor will most likely get burnt up by ranged hits or alternatively never come into play. In addition, lasting only an hour means I will generally have to cast it pretty early on

mellored said:

Assuming a 60% fireball rate, and a 70% (+2 rod) hit rate.

Fireball does 10d6, and half on a save = 28 damage to each target.
Scorching ray does 12d6, nothing on miss = 29.4 damage, total.
Eldrich blast does 3d10+12, nothng on a miss = 19.95 damage.
+ hex does 3d10+3d6+12, nothing on a miss = 27.3


Against a single target, SR is just barely better hex.
Against multiple targets, fireball.
So SR is only good for low HP spread out targets, which EB should cover reasonably well.


I would skip fear though since you have 2 melee and no immunity.

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However, if I'm willing to burn two slots (which since I will generally hex and hold hex throughout the day will almost always be the case) then I will likely have Hex+SR

The 3 hits on Eldritch blast added 7.35 on your math, if I hit with all 6 beams that doubles to 14.7

If I'm correct on how this math works that makes Scorching Ray plus Hex a 44.1 compared to Eldritch Blasts 27.3

That makes SR significantly better on that single target strike.

I think part of the issue again comes down to the number of spells, if my DM allows me to drop Banishment for Evard's Tentacles then I'll have a few very good AOE options, and I may even drop Hunger of Hadar then for Wall of Fire.

That would look something like:


AoE/Control

Evard's
Wall of Fire
Hypnotic Pattern


Single Target:

Blight
Eyebite? (Single target per turn, maybe focus a target?)
Poison Spray


Switch hitters (Able to hit multiple or single opponents)

Scorching Ray
Eldritch Blast


Single Control / Flavor

Dream
Crown of Madness
Major Image


Emergency:

Shocking Grasp
Misty Step


Misc.

Hex
Comprehend Language



I think Fireball gets outclassed by those AOE's combined with Repelling blast, and Blight can be very good, but my other single target attacks are better if I'm facing a high save or a low AC.

I guess it comes down to, do I expect to have Hex up and active the majority of the time, which I think the DM will allow, but I will need to confirm with him. If I do, then Scorching Ray seems to be a net win, I just need to watch out for the fact that my other AOEs all require concentration, but they should be good enough to warrant that loss of hex if we end up against a large enough group of foes.

If you don't like Fireball, try Destructive Wave - centered on you, but you can avoid your allies.

But yeah, not worth stressing too much about spell selections, the main thing is to avoid overlaps given you can only cast 2 or 3 spells per short rest; you just need to make sure you have a decent number of options to choose from in various situations.

hastur_nz said:

If you don't like Fireball, try Destructive Wave - centered on you, but you can avoid your allies.

But yeah, not worth stressing too much about spell selections, the main thing is to avoid overlaps given you can only cast 2 or 3 spells per short rest; you just need to make sure you have a decent number of options to choose from in various situations.

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Destructive Wave is awesome, but isn't it a Paladin only spell? How is a warlock supposed to get it?

Chaosmancer said:

Destructive Wave is awesome, but isn't it a Paladin only spell? How is a warlock supposed to get it?

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Sorry, it's on the Hexblade list. I've recently created a Hexblade, which is a better close-range/melee Warlock.