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If you can't remain civil, you'll be asked to leave your own thread. This is not an appropriate way to talk to anybody on EN World.
D&D 5E How to engage a "poke the bear" player?
If you can't remain civil, you'll be asked to leave your own thread. This is not an appropriate way to talk to anybody on EN World.
Not a Hobbit
Explorer
If a player keeps playing the same disruptive character then it is a player problem, which can't be solved by an in game solution.
iserith
Magic Wordsmith
I mentioned this in another thread recently, but it's also a good idea in my opinion to be a little introspective about one's own game and DM skills when it comes to certain player behaviors. If at least one of the players is into harassing NPCs until a fight breaks out, could it be that my NPC interaction scenes are running too long or don't contain stakes sufficient to engage the player? Am I requiring too many NPC interviews to get exposition into the hands of the players so they can go forth and adventure? Are most of my NPCs cagey and quirky and getting anything out of them is like pulling teeth? Is there enough action in my game, in general?
None of these common DM pitfalls are good enough reason for a frustrated player to disrupt the game. But I think we've all seen examples of the above and can imagine how a player can get to a point where enough is enough - that surly innkeeper who won't dish on the location of the dungeon needs stabbing. Oh look, town guards have turned up, finally a fight! Yeah. Been there. Not a great result and it starts with the DM.
Of course, none of this may be a problem at all. It's a good DM in my opinion that looks to himself or herself for areas that could be improved in addition to talking openly to the players about game issues.
None of these common DM pitfalls are good enough reason for a frustrated player to disrupt the game. But I think we've all seen examples of the above and can imagine how a player can get to a point where enough is enough - that surly innkeeper who won't dish on the location of the dungeon needs stabbing. Oh look, town guards have turned up, finally a fight! Yeah. Been there. Not a great result and it starts with the DM.
Of course, none of this may be a problem at all. It's a good DM in my opinion that looks to himself or herself for areas that could be improved in addition to talking openly to the players about game issues.
Here are some reasons a player might engage in this behavior, and your best response.
1. They are bored with parley and want to jump right to the action, because they can't tolerate any slow-downs. Some players just want non-stop action. Either modify your game to provide non-stop action, or boot the player.
2. They are bored with parley and want to jump right to the action, because they can't tolerate TOO MANY slow-downs, and they don't know when the next action scene will be. This is a trust issue. The player is OK with a cycle of action-encounter/thoughtful-encounter, but they are worried that the thoughtful encounter will drag on all night leaving them bored. You might talk to the player to reassure them that more exciting things are happening soon. Or give them frequent, concrete rewards for participating in more thoughtful encounters. ("You made a Charisma check! Have a food pellet!")
3. They enjoy antagonizing others. The player knows their behavior is disruptive and that's why they do it. You will have to talk to the player about this one. There's no getting around it. Explain that your game is not a good outlet for that particular personality trait. Just because someone is a jerk sometimes, that doesn't mean they are a jerk all the time. Maybe the player values your friendship more than they value getting their jollies, or they don't realize that the other players are really bothered by their friendly messing. But maybe the player is just a jerk and will need to be shown the door.
4. They enjoy feeling "in control." Are your games very railroady? OR, are the PCs frequently kow-towing to more powerful NPCs (which may be common in a more social-intrigue-driven game)? Some people play D&D as an escape. Your player may be poking bears to assert that they have the freedom to poke whatever bears they want. You might assuage the PC's ego somehow (which will in turn placate the player) by providing them with someone to dominate in-game. Maybe they have followers, or get a reputation. Maybe NPCs come to them, begging for help. Let them become a bear-tamer with a dancing bear, and maybe they'll leave all the wild bears alone. Also, this bear analogy has gone too far.
5. They think they are being entertaining. Seriously, they may think that their antics are hilarious for the other players. Just setting them straight on this should be enough. In-game, provide some more constructive way to produce actually hilarious antics. You might have certain NPCs who are designated butts of jokes, for example.
1. They are bored with parley and want to jump right to the action, because they can't tolerate any slow-downs. Some players just want non-stop action. Either modify your game to provide non-stop action, or boot the player.
2. They are bored with parley and want to jump right to the action, because they can't tolerate TOO MANY slow-downs, and they don't know when the next action scene will be. This is a trust issue. The player is OK with a cycle of action-encounter/thoughtful-encounter, but they are worried that the thoughtful encounter will drag on all night leaving them bored. You might talk to the player to reassure them that more exciting things are happening soon. Or give them frequent, concrete rewards for participating in more thoughtful encounters. ("You made a Charisma check! Have a food pellet!")
3. They enjoy antagonizing others. The player knows their behavior is disruptive and that's why they do it. You will have to talk to the player about this one. There's no getting around it. Explain that your game is not a good outlet for that particular personality trait. Just because someone is a jerk sometimes, that doesn't mean they are a jerk all the time. Maybe the player values your friendship more than they value getting their jollies, or they don't realize that the other players are really bothered by their friendly messing. But maybe the player is just a jerk and will need to be shown the door.
4. They enjoy feeling "in control." Are your games very railroady? OR, are the PCs frequently kow-towing to more powerful NPCs (which may be common in a more social-intrigue-driven game)? Some people play D&D as an escape. Your player may be poking bears to assert that they have the freedom to poke whatever bears they want. You might assuage the PC's ego somehow (which will in turn placate the player) by providing them with someone to dominate in-game. Maybe they have followers, or get a reputation. Maybe NPCs come to them, begging for help. Let them become a bear-tamer with a dancing bear, and maybe they'll leave all the wild bears alone. Also, this bear analogy has gone too far.
5. They think they are being entertaining. Seriously, they may think that their antics are hilarious for the other players. Just setting them straight on this should be enough. In-game, provide some more constructive way to produce actually hilarious antics. You might have certain NPCs who are designated butts of jokes, for example.
nightwind1
Explorer
Let him poke the wrong bear, and get his ass handed to him.
TheNoremac42
Explorer
Slightly off topic, but I remember one campaign we did where we were on a ship for a few days. The ship's officers were named NPCs, but the regular crew we just referred to by numbers. At one point "Generic Crewman Number 12" got killed by sauhagin(sp?). His post got a replacement that we dubbed "Generic Crewman New Number 12". He got shot by a pirate. Next up was "New New 12". I believe he survived the voyage, then shown up for a variety of campaigns as our Sean Bean stand-in.
(Now back to our regularly scheduled programming)
Warmaster Horus
Explorer
Agreed. If it's a person who can take a hint, then RP them into a better place. If they're doing it because they lack the maturity to respect your game and the other players, show them the door. Not all people fit all D&D groups.
Soul Stigma
First Post
How to engage a "poke the bear" player?
Besides the obvious answer you don't seem to want to hear, take the character out of the equation. Let him poke a bear that will jack him up permanently.
Besides the obvious answer you don't seem to want to hear, take the character out of the equation. Let him poke a bear that will jack him up permanently.
Oofta
Legend
Without knowing why your player is being disruptive, there is only limited feedback we can give.
A long time ago I had a player that had a character that was suicidal. Literally. He just wanted to see how far he could push it before I would kill off his character. He was also very "contrarian". I'm good at ad-hoc games so when the PCs would do something crazy I'd just roll with it and the players assumed they were being railroaded. So he would ignore plot lines that his character from previous in-game interactions should have jumped at and then brag about how he "ruined" my sub-plot that I had never put much effort into in the first place.
It took me a while to catch on, but eventually I did kill off his character instead of giving him yet another saving throw/skill check to barely avoid death.
He confessed that it had been his goal all along, and left the group. His big issue? He didn't want any plot, he thought I was too scripted ... even though I never scripted anything. To this day I'm still not sure what he wanted but it was clear that our styles simply didn't match.
If I had talked to him about it outside of the game, we may or may not have been able to resolve the issue. The good news was that the campaign went on, we found another player and everybody was better off for it.
Your player may just be pushing your buttons to see how far he can push you. Have NPCs react appropriately. Both the ones he's aggravated and people who have heard of the incident.
Possibilities
- He gets arrested.
- He gets killed.
- He (and his group) gets a bad reputation and everyone refuses to work with them.
Eventually the PC will be killed or removed from play. I don't care what level he is, if he pisses off the wrong people there is always a bigger fish or enough smaller fish to get the job done. NPCs don't have to fight fair, and as a DM you do not have to have a balanced encounter if it makes sense from a campaign perspective.
As others have said, this may well likely lead to resentment and bad feelings.
Or, you could just talk to the player and ask WTF is going through his head. If the game is not fun for you or the other players, I don't see that you have a lot of choice.
A long time ago I had a player that had a character that was suicidal. Literally. He just wanted to see how far he could push it before I would kill off his character. He was also very "contrarian". I'm good at ad-hoc games so when the PCs would do something crazy I'd just roll with it and the players assumed they were being railroaded. So he would ignore plot lines that his character from previous in-game interactions should have jumped at and then brag about how he "ruined" my sub-plot that I had never put much effort into in the first place.
It took me a while to catch on, but eventually I did kill off his character instead of giving him yet another saving throw/skill check to barely avoid death.
He confessed that it had been his goal all along, and left the group. His big issue? He didn't want any plot, he thought I was too scripted ... even though I never scripted anything. To this day I'm still not sure what he wanted but it was clear that our styles simply didn't match.
If I had talked to him about it outside of the game, we may or may not have been able to resolve the issue. The good news was that the campaign went on, we found another player and everybody was better off for it.
Your player may just be pushing your buttons to see how far he can push you. Have NPCs react appropriately. Both the ones he's aggravated and people who have heard of the incident.
Possibilities
- He gets arrested.
- He gets killed.
- He (and his group) gets a bad reputation and everyone refuses to work with them.
Eventually the PC will be killed or removed from play. I don't care what level he is, if he pisses off the wrong people there is always a bigger fish or enough smaller fish to get the job done. NPCs don't have to fight fair, and as a DM you do not have to have a balanced encounter if it makes sense from a campaign perspective.
As others have said, this may well likely lead to resentment and bad feelings.
Or, you could just talk to the player and ask WTF is going through his head. If the game is not fun for you or the other players, I don't see that you have a lot of choice.
1) As mentioned, really, yes, talk to the player. Fastest, easiest solution.....albeit accepted that there may be other factors and so moving on
2) As also mention, tailored advise is tricky considering you may well know WHY the player acts as he does, meanign you're probably not getting the best advise possible, as its too generic....but still moving on.
3) As a counter point to the "Let bear kill the Poker", the other half of the consequences and responsibilities double act is....oh...I've already said. Give him something his character loves or feels responsible for, and have Poking the Bear directly threaten that thing: it's much harder to poke a bear while you're holding a newborn kitten which is all that's left of your old cat whom you loved.
2) As also mention, tailored advise is tricky considering you may well know WHY the player acts as he does, meanign you're probably not getting the best advise possible, as its too generic....but still moving on.
3) As a counter point to the "Let bear kill the Poker", the other half of the consequences and responsibilities double act is....oh...I've already said. Give him something his character loves or feels responsible for, and have Poking the Bear directly threaten that thing: it's much harder to poke a bear while you're holding a newborn kitten which is all that's left of your old cat whom you loved.
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