D&D 5E Survivor Worst Spells: FIND TRAPS IS THE WORST!

Argyle King · Jul 20, 2017

Hemlock said:
Assuming that you're talking about Glyph of Warding here:

(1) It's more reliable.

(2) It can give you more information ("Books! Fire!") which simply detecting a Glyph of Warding won't do.

(3) It's fast, a single action to cast. Glyph of Warding doesn't say how long it takes to detect glyphs using Investigation but there's no guarantee it will happen that quickly, and Investigation is generally considered to be a closer, slower investigation than Perception is. If you're checking a whole room for near-invisible glyphs it could take a while, and since "seeing/reading the glyph" is a common condition for triggering the glyph (according to the Glyph of Warding spell text), you may just get a Wall of Force + Cloudkill to the face. Find Traps may not do that, depending on how the glyph is worded. Ask your DM for details.

(4) It's not 100% clear, but the Find Traps description implies that "line of sight" need not include the actual sigil--it may detect the area affected by the sigil instead. Quote: "Thus, the spell would sense an area affected by the alarm spell, a Glyph of Warding, or a mechanical pit trap". If this is the case, then Find Traps would be the ONLY way aside from clairvoyance to detect Glyphs of Warding inscribed on e.g. the opposite side of an archway you're about to walk through.

Wouldn't the opposite side be outside of my line of sight?

Assuming no, I'm of the impression I'd still need to make the same skill rolls anyway if I wanted to disable it or avoid it. Though, I'm open-minded to the idea that I simply haven't witnessed the spell being used as effectively as others may have.

Helldritch · Jul 20, 2017

Some might argue that by the time you're close enough to find the glyph of warding, you will have triggered it.
With Find Trap, you will have some idea of what is waiting for you and sending a summon or minion will save you a lot of trouble.

Iry · Jul 20, 2017

Hemlock said:
You don't know, but you know there's a trap here, and the Magic Sword is the only thing you see in this room that might be worth protecting. Do you want to risk it?

It's the library of an evil wizard. I sincerely hope that the magic sword is not the only thing of value worth protecting.

Hemlock said:
Conversely, if you cast Find Traps and find that there isn't a trap here, party on!

Unfortunately not. Finds Traps cannot detect any natural hazards, any hazards that are not in line of sight, or any hazards that are not specifically intended to cause harm (such as an unseen demon trapped behind wards or just in a book). A smart party should probably never assume there are no traps, even if Find Traps finds nothing.

Hemlock said:
In context we were talking there about the things you do with the information you get from Find Traps, such as "Books! Fire!" That extra information doesn't make it perfectly safe, but it makes you safer, if you use your head. Without Find Traps you don't even have "Books! Fire!" to go on.

If you use your head, you already suspect that Books are involved in the trap. The only thing Find Traps does in this situation is ensure you know it's Fire instead of something else, and even that is predicated on everyone in your party failing their checks. That's not worth a Prep Slot AND Cast Slot.

Hemlock said:
You could blow your whole load of spells preparing for the death trap and find out that it was safe all along; then when you get to the NEXT magic sword you've got nothing left.

Find Traps doesn't change that. It tells you nothing about the severity of the trap.

FormerlyHemlock · Jul 20, 2017

Johnny3D3D said:
Wouldn't the opposite side be outside of my line of sight?

Assuming no, I'm of the impression I'd still need to make the same skill rolls anyway if I wanted to disable it or avoid it. Though, I'm open-minded to the idea that I simply haven't witnessed the spell being used as effectively as others may have.

The opposite side of the archway would be outside your line of sight--but the area affected by the glyph on the opposite side of the archway would not. Hence why Find Traps would be able to detect the trap. Maybe. As I said, it's not fully clear. Ask your DM.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using EN World mobile app

FormerlyHemlock · Jul 20, 2017

Iry said:
Unfortunately not. Finds Traps cannot detect any natural hazards, any hazards that are not in line of sight, or any hazards that are not specifically intended to cause harm (such as an unseen demon trapped behind wards or just in a book). A smart party should probably never assume there are no traps, even if Find Traps finds nothing.

Pffft. Natural and accidental hazards are orders of magnitude less lethal than deliberate security features.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using EN World mobile app

Iry · Jul 20, 2017

Hemlock said:
Pffft. Natural and accidental hazards are orders of magnitude less lethal than deliberate security features.

Natural and accidental hazards can range from small pits to black holes. So that statement is completely backwards.

Helldritch · Jul 20, 2017

Iry said:
Natural and accidental hazards can range from small pits to black holes. So that statement is completely backwards.

IF you find a black hole in your world... you're dead. So is your world. No skills or spells can help you out. End of the game.
Hemlock's point is still more than valid. Skill check can fail. Find trap would not in the case brought up by Helmlock.

Iry · Jul 20, 2017

Helldritch said:
IF you find a black hole in your world... you're dead. So is your world. No skills or spells can help you out. End of the game.

That would be orders of magnitude more than deliberate security features, yes.

Helldritch said:
Hemlock's point is still more than valid. Skill check can fail. Find trap would not in the case brought up by Helmlock.

I don't think it is. Find Traps can fail by finding nothing, being foiled by line of sight, foiled by natural hazards, foiled by the intent of the hazard creator, or foiled by giving you no more information than you already suspected. And it's always costing both a preparation slot, and a casting slot, which would almost always be better used on a different spell. It's technically better than nothing, but only by a slim margin, and frequently worse than successful skill checks.

Seramus · Jul 20, 2017

Helldritch said:
Skill check can fail. Find trap would not in the case brought up by Helmlock.

I just want to chime in with the same story I told earlier in the thread. In my last campaign, my players used Find Traps three times and found nothing. Not because I was a dick, and not because I was being strict, but just because there were no traps around. So yeah, Find Traps can definitely be useless.

FormerlyHemlock · Jul 20, 2017

Iry said:
That would be orders of magnitude more than deliberate security features, yes.

Although if you find a black hole in your world, instead of light years away in space, odds are that it was deliberately placed there to cause harm. It's not an accidental hazard.

The hyperbole about black holes is mildly diverting in a lowkey/Survivor sort of way (which, to be fair, is what this thread technically is), but laying aside the word games and returning to substantive discussion: a weak spot in the floor that happens to drop you down a story for 1d6 falling damage before you climb back up is less lethal than a camouflaged pit trap filled with acid that covers itself with a rotating lid and locks itself to prevent you from climbing out before you drown/dissolve in the acid. In the evil wizard context, an unstable alchemy potion which creates a poison cloud doing 3d6 points of damage per round is less deadly than a ward which creates a poison cloud for 3d6 per round and a Wall of Force to prevent you from exiting the poison cloud until you've taken 100 rounds of damage (300d6). Nature doesn't employ overkill and deliberate counter-countermeasures to your attempts to survive.

D&D 5E Survivor Worst Spells: FIND TRAPS IS THE WORST!

Argyle King

Legend

Helldritch

Hero

Iry

Hero

FormerlyHemlock

Hero

FormerlyHemlock

Hero

Iry

Hero

Helldritch

Hero

Iry

Hero

Seramus

Hero

FormerlyHemlock

Hero

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