D&D 5E Survivor Worst Spells: FIND TRAPS IS THE WORST!

[FormerlyHemlock]

Unless you are right around the Level 3-4 sweet spot, you can probably only spare two or three of your prepared slots for 2nd Level spells. For a cleric, that means Find Traps is competing with great spells like Hold Person, Lesser Restoration, Prayer of Healing, Silence, and Spiritual Weapon (among others). The opportunity cost of choosing Find Traps is much more likely to be a DISadvantage.

I don't get it. If you're level 7-8, why wouldn't you have MORE slots to spare for Find Traps than you did at 3rd/4th level? Furthermore, in the scenario described, Hold Person, Lesser Restoration, and those other spells are of relatively limited value. I mean, if you set off a Glyph of Warding trap that hits you with Wall of Force + three conjured Fire Elementals, yes, you could cast Spiritual Weapon to try to kill them--but Spiritual Hammer or not, you're probably going to die unless another PC can teleport you out. Wouldn't you much, much rather just not trigger the trap in the first place?

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

No you won't. Because you'll alreqdy be assuming there are traps their, so Find Traps is useless.

If you do that, you'll leave Archer's tower empty-handed. You might as well not even go there in the first place.

 

[Yunru]

If you do that, you'll leave Archer's tower empty-handed. You might as well not even go there in the first place.

No you won't?
You do exactly the same procedure as in your original scenario. The only information you gather from Find Traps is "Fire" and "Books", the latter of which you can already guess.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

No you won't?
You do exactly the same procedure as in your original scenario. The only information you gather from Find Traps is "Fire" and "Books", the latter of which you can already guess.

And more importantly, the fact that there is a trap there. You may recall that the primary suggestion in the original scenario was "leave the library alone", and the alternate procedure of relying on unseen servants is only if you like to live dangerously.

But now that you mention it, "Fire" and "Books" is useful information too--if you have Fire Shield, maybe you activate it for resistance to fire damage, which might let you survive a trap that you otherwise wouldn't.

 

[Iry]

I don't get it. If you're level 7-8, why wouldn't you have MORE slots to spare for Find Traps than you did at 3rd/4th level?

Because you have higher level spells to spend those slots on, which also have an impressive opportunity cost. The game only gives you enough to reasonably prepare 2/2/2/2/2/2/etc. The only way you generally get more is through your attribute modifier, and reaching Level 19-20 (which gives you two extra without offering 10th level spells). The attribute modifier gives you a big chunk early on, which you can afford to 'spend' on low level spells to get impressive variety. But as your level increases, you are increasingly more likely to spend your preparation slots on spells that are not Level 2.

Furthermore, in the scenario described, Hold Person, Lesser Restoration, and those other spells are of relatively limited value.

If the evil mage library is in a dungeon, their value might be considerable. If the evil mage library is in a city, their value might be considerable. If the evil mage library is defended by some kind of guardian, their value might be considerable.

Wouldn't you much, much rather just not trigger the trap in the first place?

Absolutely. But the SOP for "Suspects a Trap" and "Definitely A Trap" are identical for most parties. Learning Book and Fire doesn't tell you anything you were not already preparing for except that it's definitely not cold, lightning, acid, etc.

Now you still don't know how the trap triggers, where it is, or if there are more deeper into the library that were blocked by the bookshelves, curtains, or other rooms.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Because you have higher level spells to spend those slots on, which also have an impressive opportunity cost. The game only gives you enough to prepare 2/2/2/2/2/2/etc.

Oh! I misread you. I thought you were talking about spell slots, not the preparation limit. Agreed. That's highly situational though--in the example under discussion where you're dealing with security-style traps, Find Traps is totally worth preparing over Prayer of Healing.

If the evil mage library is in a dungeon, their value might be considerable. If the evil mage library is in a city, their value might be considerable. If the evil mage library is defended by some kind of guardian, their value might be considerable.

De gustibus non est disputandem.

Absolutely. But the SOP for "Suspects a Trap" and "Definitely A Trap" are identical for most parties. Learning Book and Fire doesn't tell you anything you were not already preparing for except that it's definitely not cold, lightning, acid, etc.

So there's no need to cast Protection Against Energy (Lightning) before taking the magic sword; and it's probably not a summoning trap so there's probably no need to cast Mirror Image or have all of the party clumped up together in mutual-defense formation. Instead, you either leave the magic sword alone, or you let the tiefling or red dragonborn take the sword while everyone stands far away (maybe two or three rooms away just in case there are chained traps, unless you've already checked for chained traps using Find Traps).

Yes, you (the player) have to use your head a little bit to make use of the information, but that is not a bad thing in my opinion.

Now you still don't know how the trap triggers, where it is, or if there are more deeper into the library that were blocked by the bookshelves, curtains, or other rooms.

Yep, so either you're going to leave that magic sword well enough alone and go look for something like the alchemy lab that isn't trapped--or else you're going to live dangerously and use the information you have or can deduce to minimize the risk of taking that magic sword. There's still no guarantees, but if you can bring a 50% chance of TPK down to 25% chance of one PC death, that's a change worth making.

(Of course, my other advice to you is: if you do manage to steal some magic items or gold from the archmage Archer, take that gold and use it to research a better version of Find Traps before your next heist. Just because Find Traps is better than nothing doesn't mean it's remotely sufficient.)

 

[Iry]

Yes, you (the player) have to use your head a little bit to make use of the information, but that is not a bad thing in my opinion.

If you are using your head a little bit, the information (if any) gained from Find Traps is almost never worth the preparation slot AND the spell slot you give up to cast it.

Yep, so either you're going to leave that magic sword well enough alone and go look for something like the alchemy lab that isn't trapped

You don't know what's trapped, and Find Traps doesn't indicate the magic sword. It could just be enchanted to stay shiny.

or else you're going to live dangerously and use the information you have or can deduce to minimize the risk of taking that magic sword. There's still no guarantees, but if you can bring a 50% chance of TPK down to 25% chance of one PC death, that's a change worth making.

That's something using your head a little gives you, not Find Traps.

 

[Argyle King]

Oh! I misread you. I thought you were talking about spell slots, not the preparation limit. Agreed. That's highly situational though--in the example under discussion where you're dealing with security-style traps, Find Traps is totally worth preparing over Prayer of Healing.



De gustibus non est disputandem.



So there's no need to cast Protection Against Energy (Lightning) before taking the magic sword; and it's probably not a summoning trap so there's probably no need to cast Mirror Image or have all of the party clumped up together in mutual-defense formation. Instead, you either leave the magic sword alone, or you let the tiefling or red dragonborn take the sword while everyone stands far away (maybe two or three rooms away just in case there are chained traps, unless you've already checked for chained traps using Find Traps).

Yes, you (the player) have to use your head a little bit to make use of the information, but that is not a bad thing in my opinion.



Yep, so either you're going to leave that magic sword well enough alone and go look for something like the alchemy lab that isn't trapped--or else you're going to live dangerously and use the information you have or can deduce to minimize the risk of taking that magic sword. There's still no guarantees, but if you can bring a 50% chance of TPK down to 25% chance of one PC death, that's a change worth making.

(Of course, my other advice to you is: if you do manage to steal some magic items or gold from the archmage Archer, take that gold and use it to research a better version of Find Traps before your next heist. Just because Find Traps is better than nothing doesn't mean it's remotely sufficient.)

What does the spell do that making a skill check and disabling the trap doesn't do?

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

You don't know what's trapped, and Find Traps doesn't indicate the magic sword. It could just be enchanted to stay shiny.

You don't know, but you know there's a trap here, and the Magic Sword is the only thing you see in this room that might be worth protecting. Do you want to risk it?

Conversely, if you cast Find Traps and find that there isn't a trap here, party on!

That's something using your head a little gives you, not Find Traps.

In context we were talking there about the things you do with the information you get from Find Traps, such as "Books! Fire!" That extra information doesn't make it perfectly safe, but it makes you safer, if you use your head. Without Find Traps you don't even have "Books! Fire!" to go on. It could be perfectly safe or it could be a death trap with seven stacked Symbols of Death/Insanity/Hopelessness/Stunning/Sleep/Pain etc. and five summoned Efreets. You could blow your whole load of spells preparing for the death trap and find out that it was safe all along; then when you get to the NEXT magic sword you've got nothing left.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

What does the spell do that making a skill check and disabling the trap doesn't do?

Assuming that you're talking about Glyph of Warding here, because otherwise I don't know what "making a skill check" means in this context:

(1) It's more reliable.

(2) It can give you more information ("Books! Fire!") which simply detecting a Glyph of Warding won't do.

(3) It's fast, a single action to cast. Glyph of Warding doesn't say how long it takes to detect glyphs using Investigation but there's no guarantee it will happen that quickly, and Investigation is generally considered to be a closer, slower investigation than Perception is. If you're checking a whole room for near-invisible glyphs it could take a while, and since "seeing/reading the glyph" is a common condition for triggering the glyph (according to the Glyph of Warding spell text), you may just get a Wall of Force + Cloudkill to the face. Find Traps may not do that, depending on how the glyph is worded. Ask your DM for details.

(4) It's not 100% clear, but the Find Traps description implies that "line of sight" need not include the actual sigil--it may detect the area affected by the sigil instead. Quote: "Thus, the spell would sense an area affected by the alarm spell, a Glyph of Warding, or a mechanical pit trap". If this is the case, then Find Traps would be the ONLY way aside from clairvoyance to detect Glyphs of Warding inscribed on e.g. the opposite side of an archway you're about to walk through.

Find Traps isn't perfect--obviously, it would be a lot better if it had a duration and gave you more information. But it's not as useless as True Strike.