D&D 5E Cheesy or Meaty?

rgoodbb · Aug 19, 2017

Barbarian Rogue – Shield Master

When you combine these classes, say 5 in Barb and the rest in Rogue, you get so many defences. Rage/Totem Resistance, Unarmoured Defence, Danger Sense, Uncanny Dodge and Evasion

With rapier and shield using strength for the finesse weapon

Shield Master Feat: Advantage and Expertise on athletics checks to prone

Once prone, apply sneak damage….or just Reckless Attack for advantage

Two chances to land that Damage plus Rage damage and Raging 3 times per day and an ever increasing sneak d6’s

Now this multiclass monster combo is well known, but my question is do think it’s cheesy? Is it like grabbing two levels of warlock or fighter?

I have a story that kind of lends itself to this type of character with the only other main point being he will never use a magic item and is generally fearful of magic so it kind of makes sense for him to be the best non-magical beast he can be. The multiclass fits his background perfectly. However I think I might kind of feel a little dirty using him.

Cheesy or Meaty? What do others think?

Caliban · Aug 19, 2017

It's decent but by no means overpowering.

To get all those abilities, you need to be 10th level. (At least 3 levels of Barbarian and 7 levels of Rogue). And that point you've used your only ABI for the shieldmaster feat (unless you are variant human) meaning your Str or Dex hasn't increased at all.

cmad1977 · Aug 19, 2017

I could handle it. It's probably less cheesy than it looks.

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Mercule · Aug 19, 2017

Depends on the character history. If it's an interesting character with a good personality, I'm fine with it. If you have a cardboard character with an eye to nothing but math, I'm not going to like it, even if your math sucks bad enough that you're the least effective character at the table.

Basically, does the character feel like there was a concept (personality/archetypal hook) that drove the mechanics, or did the player find some mechanical combination that he thought would let him "win" (whatever that means) and do enough backstory/history/personality to then justify that? It doesn't have to be "amateur improv theater". It just has to not be a war/board game. To me, that's the difference between cheesy or not.

Shiroiken · Aug 19, 2017

Honestly the cheese factor depends on how you do this. If you're just making a high level character with no explanation, it's cheesy. If you build the character with a reasonable backstory as to why the character started as a barbarian or rogue and moved to using this fighting style, it becomes less cheesy. In neither case do I find it overpowered.

Good story example:
Rathgar was born a wild warrior of the hillfolk (level 1 barbarian greataxe/greatsword). He joined an adventuring group that was fighting the various humanoids of the hills. After suffering quite a bit of pain from their attacks, he decides a shield is a good idea (level 3-4barbarian longsword&shield). Afterwards, his friends explained the joys of civilization to him, so he decided to see the wonders of the city. After some adventures in the city (level 5 barbarian longsword&shield), he finds a fencing master who bests him in a duel. The fencing master is an enforcer for the local thieves' guild and takes Rathgar on as another enforcer, eventually teaching him the techniques of the rapier and skills of the rogues (level 5/1 barbarian/rogue rapier&shield).

rgoodbb · Aug 19, 2017

Yeah I had the backstory first, and the combo kind of lent itself to the character. But I also did know about the nice blend of classes beforehand. I'm just wondering if my pre-knowledge of the nice blend subconsciously led me to a making a character background that supported it. Who knows. That, I think, is why I'm wondering whether I would feel wrong about playing him.

I think the lack of his Magical Items or even wanting them is, in my mind at least a sign that I'm not trying to power it. But damn he is a resistant blighter! I kind of like that.

FrogReaver · Aug 19, 2017

rgoodbb said:
Barbarian Rogue – Shield Master

When you combine these classes, say 5 in Barb and the rest in Rogue, you get so many defences. Rage/Totem Resistance, Unarmoured Defence, Danger Sense, Uncanny Dodge and Evasion

With rapier and shield using strength for the finesse weapon

Shield Master Feat: Advantage and Expertise on athletics checks to prone

Once prone, apply sneak damage….or just Reckless Attack for advantage

Two chances to land that Damage plus Rage damage and Raging 3 times per day and an ever increasing sneak d6’s

Now this multiclass monster combo is well known, but my question is do think it’s cheesy? Is it like grabbing two levels of warlock or fighter?

I have a story that kind of lends itself to this type of character with the only other main point being he will never use a magic item and is generally fearful of magic so it kind of makes sense for him to be the best non-magical beast he can be. The multiclass fits his background perfectly. However I think I might kind of feel a little dirty using him.

Cheesy or Meaty? What do others think?

A few things to consider:
1. By my reading you would need to use reckless attack before making the attack with shieldMaster to knock prone. In which case you are just going to be reckless attacking either way since you will not know beforehand if shieldMaster Bonus attack proned the enemy. (at least in cases you couldn't get your sneak attack damage some other way)

2. You can make 3 attacks with advantage if you simply reckless attack and dual-wield.

I actually like the concept of a barbarian rogue. Represents a ferocious underhanded combatant.

Staccat0 · Aug 20, 2017

I think it works. Conan had a lot of rogueish qualities.

FormerlyHemlock · Aug 20, 2017

Another fun thing to do is to give your Barb/Rogue the Defensive Duelist feat and then grapple/prone opponents before beating them to death at advantage (+ sneak attack) while they feebly try to attack you back.

It's unfortunately not compatible with the Shield Master approach unless you have three arms.

Seramus · Aug 20, 2017

FrogReaver said:
A few things to consider:
1. By my reading you would need to use reckless attack before making the attack with shieldMaster to knock prone. In which case you are just going to be reckless attacking either way since you will not know beforehand if shieldMaster Bonus attack proned the enemy. (at least in cases you couldn't get your sneak attack damage some other way)

Would it? Shoving is specifically a 'special melee attack', and Reckless requires you to make your 'first attack', so it seems like Reckless could trigger off a shove.

But on the flip side, Reckless also says it gives benefits on 'melee weapon attack rolls'. So it would trigger, but not give you any benefit on the shove, since you're not making a weapon attack roll. I think? Hrrm.