BESMd20 - What needs fixed?

Branching off from http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=58515&pagenumber=2...


I've had BESMd20 since it came out, and I've noticed that the power levels are much higher than that of standard d20. So what I've been doing is having my players plan their levels and attributes ahead of time so I can make sure they're balanced. Just for the record, I know that by doing this I'm "destroying the anime feel" and am probably an "infidel" for suggesting that character and monsters actually stick to the space/reach and movement rules, but that's the whole point. I love this book, but I want it to work for ME, not have me work for it.

So far, the big one has been Speed. It's insane for a special ability, and rather than drop it altogether (since some classes have it in their progression), I simply made it +10 ft. to the characters speed for each rank. That's akin to a barbarian or monk.

With Flight, I saw that as a bit too powerful as well. So I made a new chart (this was just last night, so I would love comments or suggestions)

Rank 1 - Fly speed at base speed (poor)
Rank 2 - +20 ft. (poor)
Rank 3 - +10 ft. (average)
Rank 4 - +20 ft. (average)
Rank 5 - +10 ft. (good)
Rank 6 - +20 ft. (good)

Not sure how balancing it is, but it's at least a start...



Thanks
Chris

BESMd20 - What needs fixed?

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The price.

The folks at GOO as much as said that they were going to dispense with the balance of the core system and create their own. Are you trying to use this as an adjunct to D&D or some other d20 game? If not, I wouldn't bother trying to tweak it.

Using it with D&D and d20 modern characters, integrating it into the genre jumping reality hopping group..



Chris

Psion said:

The price.

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Amen!

I went to one of GoO "Anime Dungeon" sessions at GenCon and was quite impressed by the conversion of BESM to d20. I played the big mecha L.O.G.R.U.S. 2

Afterwards, I eagerly went to their booth in the exhibit hall and saw that the d20 sourcebook (pretty thin) was $30 and the full-color one was $60!!!!

Anyway, great idea but too darn expensive for me.

Okay, I get it, it's expensive...

*ahem*

Yes, it's pricey, but the mechanics are what I wanted to discuss. The open content of the book (which is most of it) is available as a free download on their website, so you don't HAVE to buy the book... Let's move on...



Chris

Price is a touchy subject.

I feel however, that this book is getting some flak when other books by independent companies like Pinnacle are allowed to slide by due to the wonderment of the system like Savage Worlds, small hardcover, same number of pages, a lot of reused art from a lot of products.

This game, from what I'm seeing so far, is probably better as a stand alone with somethings that may be added to a normal game.

The experience point system might work if everyone's the same level. the variable armor class that I've seen before looks neat. Lots of interesting twists here and there.

Mechanics wise I really like the AC system. The only thing that counts towards AC are dex/dodge/deflection based bonuses. Actually armor gives the recipient DR. A much better system IMO.

The only problem with their defense mechanics is that they get horribly overwhelmed by BABs, particularly at higher levels. If anything, getting hit is almost a certainty when you get to the higher levels. The big problem is that, unlike D20 Modern and Star Wars revised (which used similar defense mechanics), BESM D20 didn't institute a defense bonus. Thus, characters don't have as much defensive capabilities and stand more than a fair chance of being whacked around.

Personally, I'd probably put in a house rule to put in a defense bonus that somehow balances with the rest of class abilities and bonuses. Depending on the campaign genre, I might also opt to go with the VP/WP system used in Star Wars (that has a much more cinematic feel than just a larger threshold between unconscious and dead). It's just a matter of somehow working things out...

One option to help AC from being overwhelmed by BAB is to use the character's Ref save instead of just Dex mod. It's what's used in Judge Dredd and seems to make a lot of sense as I've often seen Ref saves described as the ability to dodge attacks. This option may need some adjustment for armour, like max Dex being replaced with max Ref.

GoO point irregularities

Though I like the point breakdowns of classes and races (and the class breakdowns, eerily parallel the 3.5 changes, where characters get points at the place that new 3.5 class features are) and the product is great, I do have a few contentions:

Since they don't use the weapon proficiencies in standard d20, the classes do look a little unbalanced. The fighter basically gets about 18 initial character points in proficiencies (based on Dragon 310 where the exoticist Fighter variant can trade martial weapon proficiency for four exotic weapons).

Basically, a feat is a feat is a feat to the GoO people. Now, the WotC writers don't even pretend that feats are balanced. Secondly, apparently a fixed feat is treated as the same cost as a open bonus feat (or nearly open in the case of fighters), which isn't necessarily true. The first doesn't open up the opportunities to min/max that the second one does, which makes the open bonus feat more powerful. Using the Marital monk option from Dragon 310, I would say an open feat would cost 3 points (based on the loss of skill points, -1 per level is about 0.25, over 20 levels this is 5 points, divided amongst three feats, this is 5/3 a point, which I rounded down to 1). This is addressed by their adventurer class who loses 12 character points through 20 levels because of his open options on spending points. This should equally apply to open feats.

Modern talents are treated as feats, but that is not entirely true. Some are weaker than feats, some are more powerful, and some are the same. If talents are to be treated as a base cost across the board I believe that they should be a little more expensive than feats.

Finally, my long contention that the sorceror and the wizard are not balanced. Apparently GoO takes the WotC line that the two serious advantages that sorcerors have (free slot spellcasting and more spells per day) balances the fact that a wizard has a spellbook and has to prememorize his spells. I would honestly place the spell multiplier for sorcerors at 0.95 rather than 0.85.

I would like to see the GoO character classes in a more d20 friendly format, but then again that may be just some work I will have to do (since I have a Player dying to play a magical girl in a standard D&D game).

But in the end these are just small contentions and I otherwise think it is a great book. I used it to balance the 3.5 races (since a 3.5 dwarf is now 4.5 points, elves are 2.5, Half-orcs are still -5, Humans are 0, and halflings, half-elves, and gnomes are 1.5 points).

Note: These above figures count weapon familiarity and bonus feats. However, I have double checked everything for consistency and have come up with different numbers. I initially trusted the GoO numbers and then a friend pointed out that the BESM d20 breakdowns were not consistent on skill bonuses (and the Artificial Construct is flamingly inconsistent since immunity is a 10 point per level power).

Also I don't like the "well since wizards and smart heroes primary ability is intelligence we should penalize them for it." Then every character with a high intelligence should be penalized for extra skill points, or better yet, none of them should. This would at least would give a wizard +1 character point per even level, if the above spell mulitplier is not used (I have a more detailed description of the imbalance using feats, If you use Spell Mastery, Extra Slot, Extra Spell, and Signature spell to simulate to try to turn a wizard into a sorceror or vice versa, the difference is a staggering 47 feats in favor of the sorceror).

Sincerely,




Sammy Grimes

Edit: corrected the mistakes I should have looked in my book for. Added another two comments before the sincerely