Exempting Races from the +1 rule

I only play AL. I like the checks and balances of organized play. Also, if there is a bad rule, everyone has to use it. I play one weekly table, one monthly table, and most cons in the area.

thethain said:

I don't really take their copy and paste boilerplate message for much. It says the same on the back of Storm Kings Thunder. So according to this line of logic you shouldn't use any info from Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide in Storm Kings thunder. Two books which go together ALMOST as much as the dragon queen series. Caveat emptor!!

In Fact... Rise of Tiamat has the same message. So you SHOULDN'T use it with Hoard of the Dragon Queen. The book which is meant to go along with it.

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It says exactly what it's meant to say. This content has been prepared and balanced against the core books only. Anything else, use at your discretion.

KahlessNestor said:

.., use your discretion.

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Hey hey I use discretion every day. I use to use Old Spice discretion but wife got mad due to cleaning up after a horse with no diaper. I now use Degree or AXE when at cons.

Hi!

The "PHB+1" is an AL league character creation rule. Characters created for AL can only use the PHB and one other source.

The reason for this is that WOTC designs D&D expansions using the same design principle.

New content is designed so that it is more or less balanced in the context of any of the other single book content combined with the PHB. The new content is intended to give greater variety with a power level comparable to that already existing in the players handbook. The reason for that design principle is because it becomes unmanageable if not impossible to find all the combinations of content from each expansion in order to find unbalanced combinations.

In home games, the DM can take a look at a combination built from multiple sources and then say whether that is fine or not. In most cases, there is likely no issue since the basic content of each expansion should be roughly equal to options available in the PHB. However, if a player finds a particularly powerful combination then the DM can either work around it or simply disallow it. This is because, in home games, the DM is free to build the content in whatever manner suits the group.

In AL play, the DM is much more constrained. Most of the module is specified, the DM can make some modification to the script but nothing really significant since the basic concept involves all players on a more or less level playing field enjoying the same content no matter who is running it. The DM may not even be aware of what rules are in which expansion, the DM may not have access to those sources. By limiting the AL player creation to PHB+1, it simplifies the job of AL DM so that they don't have to try to vet the characters provided by each player to the extent required if multiple sources were allowed.

The reasoning is similar to that allowing only point buy or fixed number for stats rather than rolling dice in AL. It creates a more level playing field for the players by reducing the min/max options and simplifing the character creation and adjudication by preventing the player from finding obscure unbalanced combinations from combining multiple source materials.

Keravath said:

Hi!

The "PHB+1" is an AL league character creation rule. Characters created for AL can only use the PHB and one other source.

The reason for this is that WOTC designs D&D expansions using the same design principle.

New content is designed so that it is more or less balanced in the context of any of the other single book content combined with the PHB. The new content is intended to give greater variety with a power level comparable to that already existing in the players handbook. The reason for that design principle is because it becomes unmanageable if not impossible to find all the combinations of content from each expansion in order to find unbalanced combinations.

In home games, the DM can take a look at a combination built from multiple sources and then say whether that is fine or not. In most cases, there is likely no issue since the basic content of each expansion should be roughly equal to options available in the PHB. However, if a player finds a particularly powerful combination then the DM can either work around it or simply disallow it. This is because, in home games, the DM is free to build the content in whatever manner suits the group.

In AL play, the DM is much more constrained. Most of the module is specified, the DM can make some modification to the script but nothing really significant since the basic concept involves all players on a more or less level playing field enjoying the same content no matter who is running it. The DM may not even be aware of what rules are in which expansion, the DM may not have access to those sources. By limiting the AL player creation to PHB+1, it simplifies the job of AL DM so that they don't have to try to vet the characters provided by each player to the extent required if multiple sources were allowed.

The reasoning is similar to that allowing only point buy or fixed number for stats rather than rolling dice in AL. It creates a more level playing field for the players by reducing the min/max options and simplifing the character creation and adjudication by preventing the player from finding obscure unbalanced combinations from combining multiple source materials.

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Thank you very much for your reasonable explanation of the current situation and rationale. Here are my thoughts...

I 100% agree with the OP. AL should make an exception for races. Let’s look at the stated cons:

1. Allowing any race invites power gaming.

The published races aren’t powerful enough mechanically too create power gaming concerns. They are well balanced. Please note that I play AL every week and just started DMing AL for ToA last week. A yuan-ti character is role playing gold. The rule of cool should out weigh the minor downside of a little more min-maxing. The goal of AL should be to maximize fun. While that sometimes means saying no to things, an exception could be made in this case. Aasimar Celestial Warlocks are clearly intended to be a thing, and I would allow it at my table, AL or not.

Also, the actual power gaming in AL comes from magic items. That FAR overshadows any race combos. We have a DM who earned a manual of the planes and then built a character with a low int, traded the item to him, and used failed saves to teleport bad guys to other dimensions. Ingenious, but definitely power gaming. But whatever... homeboy DMs enough to get all the toys, let him play with them when he gets to play a PC. The problem of not having enough DMs is worse than the problem of power gaming.

2. WoTC can’t design for more than PHB + 1.

I’m skeptical this is true, but it’s irrelevant to the OP suggestion. They can design for all races. The races just aren’t that powerful mechanically.

3. PHB + 1 makes it easier for newbies

Mike Metals tweeted this, and it made me think, “Dude doesn’t play with newbies. Or he doesn’t play AL. He definitely doesn’t play AL with newbies.” PHB +1 is actually a pain to explain to new players. I get the intention, but new players see it as arbitrary. It’ll only get worse when clearly intended combos like Aasimar Celestial Warlocks are outlawed.

4. It makes it easier for DMs

While this is true for PHB + 1 in general, making all races legal is not hard to handle as a DM. ToA allows Torltes. I am the DM. I don’t own anything that mentions Tortles as a race. And yet it is trivial for me to handle having a Tortle Barbarian/Druid play in my game.

Also, since PHB + 1 doesn’t actually exclude anything from AL, I still need to be fluent in all the splat books, just a different one for each player. It’s actually harder because I have to tell the paladin/bard that he can’t take the Oath of the Crown because he learned the thunder-clap cantrip last level as a bard. Not really intuitive.

In short, I wholeheartedly recommend AL adopt the suggestion of the OP. My name is David Sharp and I support this message.


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My name is Jasper and I don't support your message.
2. Phb +1 is a business rule, they design it from the beginning. Working with added extra stuff the core business rules did not cover will lead to break downs. Edit I started to included a real world example on how one of my dept changed a business rule after I created a check system. It broke 3 reports due real world people wanting different payouts. But I drop the example end edit.
So it a core business rule which the design of the system was base. Changing the rule will reveal flaws is the new rules. AKA a class and race combo is now has an extra +1 or +2 bonus.
3. PHB + 1 makes it easier for newbies. Different newbies, different out look. I can get people to down load the srd and be happy. Or PBH is $27 add the +1 another $27. Vs you add up the total from Amazon. Just the buy in cost are smaller with the plus one.
4. It makes it easier for DMs . Which is easier to cross check. Note I making the page numbers up.
PHB Bard page 12. Feat page 69
Volo tabaxi page 77.
vs
PHB Bard page 12.
Volo tabaxi page 77.
Sword Coast Feat page 69
I am not getting paid to DM. To demand a DM to have total rules mastery is a laugh.

Here is an example of slightly breaking the system by ignoring PHB+1...

Swashbuckler Rogue/War Wizard with Alert feat = +20 initiative bonus at max Dex/Int/Cha..."I rolled a 40 for my initiative". Add in a weapon of warning and you get advantage on all initiative checks.

Granted, it won't wreck a campaign, but it does impact the fun of every other player at the table since the same player would almost always act first.

AriochQ said:

Here is an example of slightly breaking the system by ignoring PHB+1...

Swashbuckler Rogue/War Wizard with Alert feat = +20 initiative bonus at max Dex/Int/Cha..."I rolled a 40 for my initiative". Add in a weapon of warning and you get advantage on all initiative checks.

Granted, it won't wreck a campaign, but it does impact the fun of every other player at the table since the same player would almost always act first.

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I don’t mean to be petty, but that is not a great example. First, the OP and I are advocating allowing all races, not removing the PHB + 1 rule. Your example is irrelevant to this suggestion. Second, how do you max out three stats and have the Alert feat? Either you are abusing the magic item assumptions, which is a known flaw of AL that is put up with to encourage DMing, or you are so high level that it prolly doesn’t matter that you always get to go first.

As to jasper... I’m understand that you disagree, but your example is not a great analogy either. I’m not saying ditch the rule, I am saying amend the rule after a careful consideration of the existing status quo.


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Runny said:

I don’t mean to be petty, but that is not a great example. First, the OP and I are advocating allowing all races, not removing the PHB + 1 rule. Your example is irrelevant to this suggestion. Second, how do you max out three stats and have the Alert feat? Either you are abusing the magic item assumptions, which is a known flaw of AL that is put up with to encourage DMing, or you are so high level that it prolly doesn’t matter that you always get to go first.

As to jasper... I’m understand that you disagree, but your example is not a great analogy either. I’m not saying ditch the rule, I am saying amend the rule after a careful consideration of the existing status quo.

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It is also a poor example because it doesn't even break the PHB+1 rule, both Swashbuckler and War Wizard are in Xanathar's.

rczarnec said:

It is also a poor example because it doesn't even break the PHB+1 rule, both Swashbuckler and War Wizard are in Xanathar's.

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I like the example because it proves my point. If you want to break initiative, there's no plus init race. If a swashing war wizard, PHB+1, is deemed okay, you can't break it by using a volo race. Best you can do is a +Dex/Int or dex/Cha race of which their are plenty in the PHB. Races are mechanically weak enough that they don't break anything and should be ok in play. I'm not asking that the PHB+1 rule be revoked, just that races be exempted as are backgrounds.

Please let me know if there's a PHB+1 combo that is broken with any non UA race. I can't imagine any and don't believe the designers are so bad that they'll let one in.