How much back story do you allow/expect at the start of the game?

Arilyn said:

All these complaints about 10 page backstories, but does this actually happen? Players, in my experience, are usually kind of lazy. I think a player handing me a backstory that was more than a few paragraphs would be such a shock, I would definitely read it, while celebrating having such an enthusiastic participant.

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I've done a 7 page backstory for a character (most of it covered only a single day in his past - the event that led to him becoming a warlock).

I've also done a 1 paragraph backstory, or characters with where the name and class gives you most of their backstory. (Cletus the half-orc pig farmer druid)

Writing up the backstory is mainly for my benefit. I don't expect anyone else to really care about it.

Imaculata said:

I've noticed that quite often when players write a backstory for their characters, these characters don't seem to have any life, friends or family. And as such, they don't feel like real characters to me. Why are all PC's orphans with no friends and no family? Why don't they have a job, and other people that have a role in their lives?

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Why would you become a wandering mercenary adventurer if you had a stable job, a caring family, and a social network of friends?

Besides, all that is boring. You don't become Batman by having a happy family life - you need angst, you need revenge motives, you need a flimsy reason to justify your casual fantasy racism (all orcs must die!).

Caliban said:

I've done a 7 page backstory for a character (most of it covered only a single day in his past - the event that led to him becoming a warlock)

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This is how I typically write my backstories. "An important day in the life." sort of deal.

And they're almost all 4 pages+.

But they're not really homework for the Table, they're for me. If the DM wants to read it, then he gets a copy. But he doesn't get to whine about the length if he asks for it later and never specified anything.

Arilyn said:

All these complaints about 10 page backstories, but does this actually happen? Players, in my experience, are usually kind of lazy. I think a player handing me a backstory that was more than a few paragraphs would be such a shock, I would definitely read it, while celebrating having such an enthusiastic participant.

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I did so some lengthy backstories, I admit it

Usually, my written story + NPC + description are somwhat from 4 to 6 pages. My latest char hit the magical 10, but I wrote some excerpts of the story in prose and I took some time to describe her stances towards various factions. And the older the char, the longer the story can get. One of the other longer ones was a 46 years old ex-resistance fighter who had been an acedemic before...

As DM, I kind of expect to have characters that are at least as fleshed out as my major NPC, which can usually be covered in 1/3 to 1/2 page. They don't have to write it all down, but I don't want replacable cardbord fighters.

I posted on this subject just a few days ago at GitP forums I think.

I guess I react badly to DM's placing participation requirements upon players beyond simply bringing dice, their character sheet, a PH, and their own snacks. And I can generally provide dice and a PH if they need. I encourage players to think about SOME kind of background that their character comes from. Something with more imagination than, "He was an orphan, lived uneventfully until now, and is now a murderhobo." Come up with elements about your character that can and will affect how they interact with the game world and people in it (PC or NPC). I encourage that because it helps bring a character to life BEFORE play actually begins and provides an initial direction for players to take their character other than, "SHOW ME THE MONEY!"

But all that is ultimately for the player themselves. I require nothing in the way of background. In particular, some players are gifted in creating backstory and enjoy the process of that. Others are utterly uninterested in that as a creative exercise, or lack any ability to WRITE creatively even if they want to. I once did, but will no longer seek to put players in a position where a creative author gets lots of plot hooks and attention devoted to their character because they can write a great backstory, while another player, who may even want more hooks and attention for their PC gets vastly less simply because they lack the skill to set it up with written backstory. I don't want to set myself up as DM to fall into that kind of favoritism.

Furthermore, I DO NOT NEED your backstory plot hooks to get your PC involved in the game world. If I did I would not be a very good DM and I feel like _I_ would be a worse one for choosing to lean on the creativity of the players to make up for it. If you can stay above that as a DM, more power to you. Guess you're just better than I. I will rely on MY OWN ideas for how to involve ALL player characters in the plots and adventures that I present. If I can't do that without your PC's detailed backstory then the campaign was likely doomed in the first place to be fairly uninteresting. If I CAN do that without your backstories then... I don't need your backstories.

I've played in enough games where one PC was some kind of chosen one, or inheritor of a rich and powerful noble title/estate, or simply was made into the focus of the game because the DM fell in love with one or two characters in particular and made them the focus of the game as a result. I've played and run PLENTY of games with gamers who simply DO NOT HAVE THE ROLEPLAYING SKILLS to support more than limited attention to their PC. Are they unworthy of attention? Because other players are better roleplayers are they to be given all the attention and glory at the cost of always relegating other PC's to token importance and easily replaced by any other disposable character?

I play AD&D. Ultimately ALL characters are disposable. I can't guarantee their importance or survival and don't want to. If I make one character overly important to events in my game then I can't be as neutral as a DM SHOULD be - the PC becomes critical to my ongoing plots and adventures and if they die those plot and adventures suffer or die along with the PC in question. Not at all fair or desirable.

Lastly, I've also occasionally seen players take the opportunity of required background to give their PC's wealth, titles, skills, contacts, knowledge, and more requiring myself to then become a hatchet man, to edit their wishlist down to an acceptable level. Regardless of the time it takes to do that, it isn't supposed to be the POINT of asking for background to be presented with a pre-game wishlist or pumped up character build by backstory fiat. And then there's the player who decides they're going to create the game world for me, inventing cities, organizations, historical events, important NPC's, artifacts, deities, yada yada yada. I appreciate the creativity of that - I DO - but that's MY job, not the players job, and I again don't want to have to be in the position of red penciling half of a players backstory because it won't fit the game world _I_ am supposed to be creating to provide TO THEM.

Backstories are useful and as a player can be an incredibly fun and creative ADDITION to the fun of actual gameplay. But they need to be kept in their place. If a DM actually desires, as a creative exercise for themselves, to craft an entire campaign from the individual backstories made up by players for their PC's, go for it and enjoy. But as a rule for the vast majority of general game play they should not be made a requirement for a player's participation.

JMO

Addendum: I haven't actually been a player in a long time so it's been even longer since a DM actually asked for a backstory for a character of mine. If a DM were to make anything more than a simple paragraph of basic description/introduction a requirement then I'd immediately begin to question whether I want to be a player in that game or not and would have to talk to the DM at length about just what it is they think they want from me before the game even begins and what they expect to do with (or more likely TO...) my character backstory after the game begins. My knee-jerk reaction would be to simply provide no more than the aforementioned simple, superficial paragraph, or just refuse altogether. ...And then I'd go home and write 10 pages of backstory, bring it to the next game, wave it around and tell the DM that he'll NEVER be permitted to read it. Just for spite.

So I guess it depends on DM and play style.

For example, our group discusses their character ideas and whether they fit into the whole campaign or not with the DM before the campaign starts. Playing a pirate in an underdark campaign wouldn't make too much sense.

So generally the DM provides the setting, the campaign ideas and the possible starting points and the players expand on that. Sometimes a player wants to play a certain character and asks the DM whether the campaign could be tweaked a bit to incorporate the char, but that doesn't happen too often.

The players then pick a location and maybee some NPC and form their backstory with the help of the material the DM gave them. Which means adding more NPC, maybe integrating certain events into the campaign etc. This way the DM can use the already integrated backstory and expand on it. Tie the characters together. And to me, this more collaborative "session 0" planning makes the campaign much more immersive than "oh here's my cool world, play whatever you want (bus don't expect me to mind), go along with this awesome story".

Campaigns where the DM has his story and the players can bring the characters that don't have to be rooted in anything can work just fine. But in my experience, this often leads to player characters being irrelevant, replacable variables where only (the DM's) story and not its actors become the focal point.

And I can totally understand that "DM's favourite" fear. I have experienced that as well and it hurts even more when you're as interactive, interested and invested as the favourite, but don't get all the spotlight. But there are players who simply don't mind. Players who take all thir fun out of combat situations. Or who really love to solve puzzles. But this doesn't mean you should cut all story ties to your story investors so that the other crowd isn't hurt.
I've once had a player whom I really tried to get and spill more hooks for me. I told him I wanted to do more with his char, but I needed info for that as the campaign was only starting. And I also told him that I had some twists planned for the other characters and wanted to do the same for him. But he just didn't mind. He only wanted to play the story and his character's quirks. So this was okay for all of us. It wouldn't have been benificial for the remaining players or me to cut down my backstory hooks just because this one player didn't want it for his char.

Edit: And to me, "our approach" is maybe more vital when you're using APs or modules. Because you can always change your homebrew campaign to your players, but scripted modules are harder to adapt.

shidaku said:

Because of:
A: the player things it makes them edgier to be a lone wolf abandoned by their parents living live on the edge with no connection to anyone or any thing!

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TANGENT: I've also run into numerous players who argue that having a character who has friends and/or relatives is a glaring Achilles' heel that only stupid people agree to having.

Nytmare said:

TANGENT: I've also run into numerous players who argue that having a character who has friends and/or relatives is a glaring Achilles' heel that only stupid people agree to having.

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This is sometimes a reaction to having a previous DM go immediately for the old, "Your brother/mother/spouse has been kidnapped by the bad guy. Now you have to do what they say!" or the, "elements of your backstory are naught but grist for the mill."

For instance, I played briefly in a campaign where, upon being asked about family, I said, "sure, I live on the crappy side of town near the docks with my mother and sister. I've never met my father, but sometimes spin stories about him being a famous pirate." during the first in-game day, a horde of orcs invaded the city and murdered and ate my mother and sister, and a dragon swooped over and burned my crappy house down. I shrugged, said, "its the sailor's life for me." and sailed away and out of that campaign forever.

Nytmare said:

TANGENT: I've also run into numerous players who argue that having a character who has friends and/or relatives is a glaring Achilles' heel that only stupid people agree to having.

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That was kinda my Part B. I've never had a DM use family as really anything other than a plot to get me to care about a given slice of the world (ex: People are poor in your home town, you want to help!), but I've certainly heard tell of DMs who relentlessly slaughtered family and friends until the PCs did what the bad-guy wanted. (aka: followed the DMs railroad)

shidaku said:

That was kinda my Part B. I've never had a DM use family as really anything other than a plot to get me to care about a given slice of the world (ex: People are poor in your home town, you want to help!), but I've certainly heard tell of DMs who relentlessly slaughtered family and friends until the PCs did what the bad-guy wanted. (aka: followed the DMs railroad)

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Sounds like a lot of people have experiences with terrible DM's.