D&D 5E How did the final battle in Out of the Abyss go for your table? [spoilers]
Flexor the Mighty!
18/100 Strength!
I just don't think a single boss monster is a challenge in this addition without a lot of reworking once you get past a certain level. At least it hasn't been IME. I think if the party has been the L11 Paladin, L10 Paladin, L11 Cleric, L11 Rogue, L11 Barbarian, and L11 Fighter they would have smoked him. At full 680 HP he may have been able to outlast their abilities and powers that stopped them from dying but I think it would have been up to the dice, crits swing things so wildly back and forth its to me a bit much. During the first two rounds he was doing well and they were rolling poorly but round 3 was I think 3 crits, 2 of them max power smites and one a rogue sneak attack. Suddenly he was in trouble, and it just got worse.
And yeah, I don't see how you top this so I think these characters are probably retired.
And yeah, I don't see how you top this so I think these characters are probably retired.
In my remix of OotA (for level 15-20) I'm going to have the PCs battle 3 demon lords simultaneously for the final battle (with Graz'zt's help potentially, if they make a deal with him, after which he'll double-cross them and try to take them out). So that should be suitably challenging and epic!
Flexor the Mighty!
18/100 Strength!
That is probably a good idea. Now if the group is not using magic items it would be different, but honestly who does that?
jimmytheccomic
First Post
I'm not running Out of the Abyss, but I am going to be using Demogorgon as the final battle in the campaign I'm currently running, so this is a helpful read.
The characters will likely be level 20, so I know I'm going to have to retool him quite a bit- what were some things you wish were different about his stat build? What made the fight exciting, and what seemed like a waste?
The characters will likely be level 20, so I know I'm going to have to retool him quite a bit- what were some things you wish were different about his stat build? What made the fight exciting, and what seemed like a waste?
Flexor the Mighty!
18/100 Strength!
I think he could use more actions. His melee attacks are pretty good, but if you make the save they aren't that tough. His tail attack is worse on his legendary actions but its just a legendary and he has two of them. For 20th level PC I'd jack his AC up a lot and probably give him close to 1000 HP. His gaze is OK but its only a single round and save again so it wasn't a huge issue. If a PC failed then rolled attack nearest on the confusion table it could change things though, my guys had good saves against his gaze and the two that failed either lost a round being confused or were able to attack normally. But 5e and its kind of weak spell effect durations make that part of the core design.
My game is 6 players, though there were 8 PC in the final battle. So for a single boss you really have to jack the HP and AC up big time, the low AC values make hits very easy and just an extra attack or two really blows things up.
The group fought Grazz't at 7-8th level, and 6 PC were giving him a run for his money though it would have been a TPK eventually. They ran into Yeenoghou at 9-10th level and it was nearly a TPK but they had him one round away from going down. If they had both Paladins during that fight they would have slain him. Still only 1 of 6 survived. Then finally Demogorgon. Its hard to plan since you can't really plan for crits and when the rogues and paladins are critting on attacks with a lot of dice it changes things quickly.
4 L20 PC...good luck demon prince, barring bad luck I'm thinking its a 3-4 round pimp slapping. 6 L20 PC could probably clean out the Abyss...
My game is 6 players, though there were 8 PC in the final battle. So for a single boss you really have to jack the HP and AC up big time, the low AC values make hits very easy and just an extra attack or two really blows things up.
The group fought Grazz't at 7-8th level, and 6 PC were giving him a run for his money though it would have been a TPK eventually. They ran into Yeenoghou at 9-10th level and it was nearly a TPK but they had him one round away from going down. If they had both Paladins during that fight they would have slain him. Still only 1 of 6 survived. Then finally Demogorgon. Its hard to plan since you can't really plan for crits and when the rogues and paladins are critting on attacks with a lot of dice it changes things quickly.
4 L20 PC...good luck demon prince, barring bad luck I'm thinking its a 3-4 round pimp slapping. 6 L20 PC could probably clean out the Abyss...
Ralif Redhammer
Legend
One thing to keep in mind with these descriptions is that in Out of the Abyss, as it’s written Demogorgon is not at full power when the PCs fight him, having had to fight through all the other demon lords in the Underdark and being subject to an archmage’s debilitating spell effect. I ran it as such, but not everyone did.
To challenge some 20th level PCs, I’d say throw in some supporting demons either before they get to him, to drain some of those resources, or while they fight him. When PCs only have a single enemy to focus on, unless the monster is designed for solo encounters, yeah, it often does turn into the proverbial curb stomp.
To challenge some 20th level PCs, I’d say throw in some supporting demons either before they get to him, to drain some of those resources, or while they fight him. When PCs only have a single enemy to focus on, unless the monster is designed for solo encounters, yeah, it often does turn into the proverbial curb stomp.
Flexor the Mighty!
18/100 Strength!
Yeah there was supposed to be a -5 to all rolls thing that I just ignored. If I had put that in place it would have been a cake walk.
UnknownDyson
Explorer
In threads like these I can never understand how you don't TPK the party if you run the demon lord intelligently and don't gimp it. In the 0P's case it's double the party size versus Demogorgon alone, so yeah.... but 4-5 8th level players vs Graz'zt???? How isn't that the end?
jimmytheccomic
First Post
5 level 20s, actually!
One thing I'm likely going to do is boost his AC, HP, Save DC and damage output to match a CR 30 creature- it's the last fight of a three year campaign, and he's an iconic creature so I want to make sure it really gives them a run for it.
They've already had a few encounters with Saint Kargoth that they had to retreat from- I'm running him as a Death Knight with a Vorpal Sword and a few extra spells. I figure the last throwdown with him will either be right before the Demogorgon fight, or they might have to face him and Demogorgon at the same time. I'd rather stack the fights one after another to keep Demogorgon the focus, though.
It's also a little tempting to give Demogorgon two turns in the initiative order, one for each head- I'll have a better feel for that as my players get nearer to that level, though, we've got another six months or so.
