D&D 5E Rating magic items on a 1-10 scale

CapnZapp · Dec 5, 2017

Sane is (much) better than the Rarity based system of the DMG but it is still very much ad-hoc and with no insight in the processes that led its writers to arrive at a certain number.

I suspect it simply brings 3E prices over, with some experience tweaking the numbers. The writers weren't interested in discussing much (when I first saw it, the discussion threads had already died down). I certainly can't see if they share the same sensibilities that I enumerated above.

What I want to see is a full breakdown of magic item components (what is "+1" worth? what is "flight" worth, what is "acid resistance" worth? what is "no concentration" worth? what is the Distant spell metamagic worth? what is Fighter's Action Surge worth? etc etc). Yes, with formulas and extensive discussion.

robus · Dec 5, 2017

CapnZapp said:
Sane is (much) better than the Rarity based system of the DMG but it is still very much ad-hoc and with no insight in the processes that led its writers to arrive at a certain number.

I suspect it simply brings 3E prices over, with some experience tweaking the numbers. The writers weren't interested in discussing much (when I first saw it, the discussion threads had already died down). I certainly can't see if they share the same sensibilities that I enumerated above.

What I want to see is a full breakdown of magic item components (what is "+1" worth? what is "flight" worth, what is "acid resistance" worth? what is "no concentration" worth? what is the Distant spell metamagic worth? what is Fighter's Action Surge worth? etc etc). Yes, with formulas and extensive discussion.

This reminds me of the "making of" documents I'd love to see for 5th Edition...

Yaarel · Dec 6, 2017

If you want actual worth of magic items, define it by hit points.

If the only way to gain a magic item was to permanently expend a number of hit points ...

What is the maximum number of hit points, that a character would permanently give up, to gain this particular magic item?

It could be part of the attunement process, for example. Attunement costs hit points.

cthulhu42 · Dec 6, 2017

Yaarel said:
If you want actual worth of magic items, define it by hit points.

If the only way to gain a magic item was to permanently expend a number of hit points ...

What is the maximum number of hit points, that a character would permanently give up, to gain this particular magic item?

It could be part of the attunement process, for example. Attunement costs hit points.

That's an interesting idea. Wouldn't fighters and barbarians be at something of an advantage though?

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Cap'n Kobold · Dec 6, 2017

cthulhu42 said:
That's an interesting idea. Wouldn't fighters and barbarians be at something of an advantage though?

I would doubt it, because while their generally higher HP totals would mean they could afford more powerful items, they also have to actually survive with their drastically reduced HP total.

That said, there are fighters that don't need to melee, and lower-HP classes that might want to, so I don't think that it is a good system.

cthulhu42 · Dec 6, 2017

Cap'n Kobold said:
I would doubt it, because while their generally higher HP totals would mean they could afford more powerful items, they also have to actually survive with their drastically reduced HP total.

That said, there are fighters that don't need to melee, and lower-HP classes that might want to, so I don't think that it is a good system.

I don't know that I would go with it in game, but it's an interesting way of trying to determine the relative value of a given magic item.

A +3 weapon is considered top of the line, but if I only had 100 hit points to spend I don't know that I'd give up any more than maybe 10 to 15 of them for a +3 weapon. I might go a little more if it was +3 armor.

The more I think about it the more I think my original post was pretty flawed. There are just too many variables and every character has their own criteria that determines what an item is worth. One character's trash is another character's treasure.

The hit point cost is at least something that any given character could use to decide what an item is worth to them. It's a little like the 3.5 crafting system that cost xp.

My whole point of this little thought exercise was to try to make a start on some sort of crafting system. A personal cost beyond gold and time isn't the worst place to start.

I'm beginning to think that my best bet would be to redetermine rarity of items so that the crafting system presented in the DMG or XGtE makes more sense to me.

Yaarel · Dec 6, 2017

cthulhu42 said:
I don't know that I would go with it in game, but it's an interesting way of trying to determine the relative value of a given magic item.

A +3 weapon is considered top of the line, but if I only had 100 hit points to spend I don't know that I'd give up any more than maybe 10 to 15 of them for a +3 weapon. I might go a little more if it was +3 armor.

The more I think about it the more I think my original post was pretty flawed. There are just too many variables and every character has their own criteria that determines what an item is worth. One character's trash is another character's treasure.

The hit point cost is at least something that any given character could use to decide what an item is worth to them. It's a little like the 3.5 crafting system that cost xp.

Yeah, I intend the hit point metric to be hypothetical so as to quantify magic items, not actually to implement in game.

But hit points are a useful criterion, because most players have a rough sense of how much a hit point is worth. It is especially useful because economy is irrelevant. If the genre is a wasteland of collapsed civilization and scarcity, the hit points still apply, and if the genre is an imperial court intrigue among economic elites, the hit point metric still applies.

So, there is something relatively objective about hit points.

Of course, a Fighter would expend more hit points for a powerful magic plate armor suit, than a Wizard would. But this is working as intended. Players naturally select what is desirable for their own character while passing over options that are less useful to them. The amount of hit points to spend is limited, so players tend to choose wisely.

CapnZapp · Dec 7, 2017

Of course gold is equally easy to implement in that regard.

All we need from the designers is a baseline, an assumed wealth per level table.

Then if you run a low-magic campaign you can simply hand out less gold.

Or, as in your example, if you know you're handing out a tenth of the gold (but still want the same amount of items) you simply lower prices to a tenth.

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Matrix Sorcica · Dec 7, 2017

CapnZapp said:
Of course gold is equally easy to implement in that regard.

All we need from the designers is a baseline, an assumed wealth per level table.

A baseline has already been determined on this forum and Reddit IIRC. It's the baseline for cost of magic items (by rarity) from the DMG that needs replacement or at the very least, a new baseline.

D&D 5E Rating magic items on a 1-10 scale

CapnZapp

Legend

robus

Lowcountry Low Roller

Yaarel

He Mage

cthulhu42

Explorer

Cap'n Kobold

Hero