Creating a Character VS Discovering a Character

I don't pull punches. I feel, if a DM does that, then the players lose the feeling of a true challenge.

At the same time, I didn't target that character and try to have her killed, either.

I just played the game the same as if she had max hit points.

I do adjust the challenge of the entire adventure, though. All DMs do that. Otherwise, you'd have 1st level character going up against ancient, huge dragons.

Water Bob said:

I don't pull punches. I feel, if a DM does that, then the players lose the feeling of a true challenge.

At the same time, I didn't target that character and try to have her killed, either.

I just played the game the same as if she had max hit points.

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That's just it, though. Going after a ranged enemy is good strategy, 1 hit point or 100 hit points.

I do adjust the challenge of the entire adventure, though. All DMs do that. Otherwise, you'd have 1st level character going up against ancient, huge dragons.

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Well, the issue is how much you adjust it. If you adjusted it to where a normal 1st, 2nd, 3rd level party is encountering the kinds and numbers the DMG sets up for that level to encounter, that's not pulling your punches. It would also almost surely result in a 1 hit point archer dying fairly quickly. If you adjusted that downward so as to make the 1st level encounters a challenge for that 1 hp 1st level PC, then that's pulling punches. You've made the game easier in order to account for the lower hit points and stats.

I make the challenge for the group as a whole, not for one character.

Water Bob said:

I make the challenge for the group as a whole, not for one character.

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And was that challenge at the level the books state, harder or easier? For instance, if they encountered gnolls at level 2, did they encounter 4-10 of them?

Maxperson said:

And was that challenge at the level the books state, harder or easier? For instance, if they encountered gnolls at level 2, did they encounter 4-10 of them?

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I guess the answer is "yes-what the book stated" because for that character, we were playing through the old AD&D DL 1 Dragons of Despair adventure. I didn't alter whatever was in the adventure because the group was about the size the adventure recommended. It was a few years ago, but I think that adventure is made for level 4-6 characters, and the elf girl was level 1 (level 3 when we finished that adventure).

I do remember a fight in the mountains with trolls. That was hairy. Our girl survived.

I random rolled who the Trolls attacked out in the open. One hit would have killed her. She got lucky. The Trolls surprised the party, jumping down on them from the trees.

Water Bob said:

I guess the answer is "yes-what the book stated" because for that character, we were playing through the old AD&D DL 1 Dragons of Despair adventure. I didn't alter whatever was in the adventure because the group was about the size the adventure recommended. It was a few years ago, but I think that adventure is made for level 4-6 characters, and the elf girl was level 1 (level 3 when we finished that adventure).

I do remember a fight in the mountains with trolls. That was hairy. Our girl survived.

I random rolled who the Trolls attacked out in the open. One hit would have killed her. She got lucky. The Trolls surprised the party, jumping down on them from the trees.

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That module was built for 4-6 characters of 3-6th level. If a level 1 party survived it, that would be amazing all by itself. Just look at some of the random encounters. Any of these could wreck a 1st level group with max hit points, more than one of these are unbeatable. The module also has built in encounters for a 3-6th level group, so I have a really hard time seeing a party that low succeed if punches weren't pulled.

1-4 Boars, Giant. AL N; MV 12; AC 6; HD 7; #AT 1; Dmg 3-18

1-10 Baaz Draconians. AL LE; MV 6[15]/18; AC 4; HD 3; #AT 1 or 2; Dmg 1-8 or 1-4/1-4

1-8 Bozak Draconians. AL LE; MV 6[15]/18; AC 2; HD 4; #AT 1 or 2; Dmg 1-8 or 1-4/1-4. Spells: 1st Level: magic missile, shield, sleep; 2nd Level: darkness 15, web. When they take 50% losses, they retreat.

1-12 Spiders, Huge. AL N; MV 3/12; AC 4; HD 2+2; #AT 1; Dmg 1-6 + poison

2-12 Ogres. AL CE; MV 9; AC 5; HD 4+1; #AT 1; Dmg 1-10. These are troops of the Dragonlords, guarding a path. Their orders are to ask about the crystal staff, and to prevent passing down the path at all costs.

2-12 Wraiths. ALLE; MV 12/24; AC 4; HD 5+3; #AT 1; Dmg 1-6 + one level drain These are the spirits of evil persons who died at the time of the Cataclysm.

2-8 Trolls. AL CE; MV 12; AC 4; HD 6+6; #AT 3; Dmg 5-8/5-8/2-12. These are in the service of the the draconian army. Their mission is to kill whatever they see.

1-3 Will-o-wisps. AL CE; MV 18; AC -8; HD 9; #AT 1; Dmg 2-16 Spawned at the time of the Cataclysm, these creatures try to lead the PCs in the worst possible direction and then attack.

1 Huge, Ancient Black Dragon (Khisanth). See statistics in Encounter area 70k. 20% chance of attacking the PCs.

1-10 Bozak Draconians. AL LE; MV 6[15]/18; AC 2; HD 4; #AT 1 or 2; Dmg 1-8 or 1-4/1-4. Spells: 1st Level: charm person, magic missile, shield; 2nd Level: invisibility, mirror image. (this group doesn't flee at half casualties)

1 Catoblepas. AL N; MV 6; AC 7; HD 6+2; #AT 1; Dmg 1-6 + stun; gaze causes death

1-10 Hatchling Black Dragons. AL CE; MV 12/24; hp 6; AC 3; HD 6; #AT 3; Dmg 1-4/1-4/3-18

1-6 Snakes, Poisonous. AL N; MV 15; AC 5; HD 4+2; #AT 1; Dmg 1-3 + poison

2-12 Wraiths. ALLE; MV 12/24; AC 4; HD 5+3; #AT 1; Dmg 1-6 + one level drain

That's 14 of the 24 encounters, so a greater than 50% chance of either probably a TPK or being guaranteed death. In the plains, hills and mountains it was a 40% chance per day of hitting an encounter, or perhaps more than one. In the forest it was 60%, the marsh 80%. In the ruins you checked once every half hour, so you were pretty much guaranteed an encounter or more than one every 5 hours.

Maxperson said:

The module also has built in encounters for a 3-6th level group, so I have a really hard time seeing a party that low succeed if punches weren't pulled.

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I didn't say it was easy. It was quite remarkable, I would say. One of the best roleplayers in our group played that character. He did an exceptional job, I would say.

And, I can't help it that you don't believe it. You seem to be set in your opinion, and nothing that anybody says will change it.