D&D 5E PC Permadeath: Yea or Nay?

DRF said:

Yes, fighting dragons when the dragons can't kill you (or if they do, you just respawn 5 minutes later) is great, exciting fun.

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What is fun will vary from table to table and campaign to campaign. It's important to discuss things like "What Resurrection houserules will we use?" in a Session 0. In one of my campaings, death is permanent. In another it's exactly whats in the PHB including Resurrection spells.

Regardless of that, I don't think "This is how it works in real life, so the game should reflect that" is a very effective argument for a game with Dragons, Dinosaurs, Wish, Simulacrum, Wildshape, Prestidigitation, etc, etc.

I killed one tonight.



Of course, in Planescape, they have the option to find a way to Pandemonium where they might rescue Luke Low's soul in Winter's Hall, where he endlessly pours mead for Loki's proxy, Starkad the Gnawer, a hedonistic cloud giant.

TiwazTyrsfist said:

D&D is a game.
The purpose of playing a Game is Fun and Enjoyment.
Losing your character against your will is NOT FUN.

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Don't tell me what I find fun.

Where is the game in that?

If you want to tell a story do that. There are a lot of ways that can be done. Write a novel, act out a play, etc.

It's also fine to play a full improv game where everyone narrates what happens in turn.

If a character/party cannot die then there is no thrill of survival/success. No one gets to be heroic/courageous because everyone is immortal.

I don't see any fun in that. Your game sounds awful to me and I would leave in my first session.

Sitting there NOT PLAYING while the game goes on is NOT FUN.

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I love Werewolf. It's fun even on the sidelines.

In D&D a player has a lot more to do when they're out than in Werewolf. It's time to make a new character!

Since I've been called out TWICE on my OPINION let me clarify.

I do not enjoy sitting out and not playing because my character is currently dead.

That is MY opinion.

That I do not have FUN when I am not actively a part of the game, and having my character be dead for multiple sessions because of overly complex requirements to ressurect a character is, IN MY OPINION, not fun.

That is just MY OPINION, and you are entitled to your own.

Now I'm blocking this thread from my notifications.

Bye.

1E got this right in my opinion.

PCs had a chance of 'resurrection survival' based on Constitution.
If that check failed then that was it - stay dead.
If the check is successful then they can come back.
Each time they are brought back they lose 1 point of Constitution, thereby reducing the chance of success next time.

In my game, dead character can be revived from the depths of Hell by delving into the underworld to retrieve the lost soul of the deceased character. Otherwise, raising the dead is unavailable. Death is not something a mere spell should be able to overcome.

Default assumptions in the PHB have always worked for us. 3 failed death saves and you're done, but there are some options for bringing characters back, so long as you have the financial resources and access to high level spell casters. In our 5e games, nobody has followed through on the option to revive, with maybe a half dozen PC deaths in campaign play. (Most of our character deaths are in one-shot adventures where DMs and players are less careful. And I could see us handling the resurrection of a character killed in a one-shot entirely narratively, as there are recurring player characters who get leveled up and down appropriately when we need to do a one-shot in a hurry.)

We had one instance where a player was pretty upset to lose a character and kept reminding the DM, "you're the DM," which, I think, meant, "You can make this go away." He didn't ask us to try and revive the character, though, so...

As a DM, I would be cheesed by a player who insisted on just "bringing a character back" on the spot. As a player, I would be cheesed by a DM who, after a PC death, announced that, no, actually, there is no resurrection magic in this world and, even if you have the GP and know high-level casters, it's just not gonna happen, sorry. (Fine to set that out in a session 0, and more than fine to put some sort of quest or challenge in the way, but not great to just close off that avenue entirely after the fact.) We don't ever discuss revival in session zeroes, but we do discuss the intended level of lethality. Should PC death be something that players have to willingly walk into? Should PC death be constantly just around the corner? Or something in between? We usually settle for something in between.

ad_hoc said:

I love Werewolf. It's fun even on the sidelines.

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I play with a DM who was a successful Hollywood writer. He also has the memory of an elephant. I've seen him juggle 12 people players, while running multiple NPCs(with distinct personalities) and fighting 40 enemies, cutting away at dramatic moments, and always keeping people engaged. I'm a very good DM, but I can't hold a candle to him.

Because a lot of his people are also in the business, the roleplaying is incredible. The stories, roleplaying and action between him and other players is so entertaining, that even when dead and it's just not feasible to bring in a new PC, players prefer to sit and watch than leave or do something else.

JonnyP71 said:

1E got this right in my opinion.

PCs had a chance of 'resurrection survival' based on Constitution.
If that check failed then that was it - stay dead.
If the check is successful then they can come back.
Each time they are brought back they lose 1 point of Constitution, thereby reducing the chance of success next time.

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I didn't care for the -1 con. I would have rather they just gave -10% to resurrection and system shock for each death and left the con score alone. Losing the hit points as con dropped made death more likely to happen, as well as increasing permadeath chances.

JonnyP71 said:

1E got this right in my opinion.

PCs had a chance of 'resurrection survival' based on Constitution.
If that check failed then that was it - stay dead.

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In our games a failed raise has sometimes led to adventuring right into the land of the dead to somehow get the spirit out. Good times.

If the check is successful then they can come back.
Each time they are brought back they lose 1 point of Constitution, thereby reducing the chance of success next time.

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Maxperson said:

I didn't care for the -1 con. I would have rather they just gave -10% to resurrection and system shock for each death and left the con score alone. Losing the hit points as con dropped made death more likely to happen, as well as increasing permadeath chances.

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The way to get around this, as we unintentionally stumbled on* over 35 years ago and have used ever since, is to have hit points be "locked in" when rolled, with subsequent changes to Con (up or down) not touching previously rolled hit points at all.

* - this came about due to - as was often the case - our interpreting a 50-50 Gygax ambiguity in a particular way, and then sticking with it.

Lan-"when I played 3e, where RAW has changes to one's Con affecting h.p., it was both a culture shock and a bloody nuisance"-efan