D&D 5E The best solution for longswords

I think the Longsword is fine as is...

But here's a controversial idea: Add an one-handed martial finesse weapon that does 1d8 slashing damage called a Sabre...

Hriston said:

I'm not sure what you mean by sub-optimal. A one-handed martial weapon that does 1d8 damage is on-par with other weapons on the list. The same goes for a two-handed non-heavy weapon that does 1d10. What exactly is the problem you want to fix?

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You're right, the longsword is a not a bad choice for a strength-based character with a sword and shield, and all versatile weapons are in the same sub-optimal boat of doing less damage when used two-handed than one-handed when used with their corresponding fighting style in addition to losing the ability to use a shield.

But I'm mostly referring to rogue proficiency with a longsword. Even for a strength based-rogue the longsword is a poor choice for a weapon because he can't sneak attack with it.

And elves (who are supposed to be smart) handicap themselves by training a weapon (longsword) which requires strength when they are better suited (as a group) to dexterity based weapons.

That's what I mean by suboptimal.

Kobold Avenger said:

I think the Longsword is fine as is...

But here's a controversial idea: Add an one-handed martial finesse weapon that does 1d8 slashing damage called a Sabre...

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Yeah! Lets also add a 0ne-handed martial finesse weapon that does 1d8 bludgeoning damage called a stick.

Then we can do an end zone celebration dance because no one will need STR ever again!

Huh. This thread just made me realize that the custom Encumbrance rules I'm writing up give a little, hidden benefit to longswords and other versatile weapons.

(Heavy weapons count double towards the maximum amount carried, so someone looking to fight with a two-handed weapon could pick a longsword and carry more loot)

I removed Rapiers from the game and then made Longswords finesse.

At the end of the day... the only question a DM needs to ask is whether or not they want a DEX-based melee weapon user to have access to a 1d8 weapon. If yes, then have one and call it whatever you want-- rapier, longsword, arming sword, sabre, or whatever. If not, then leave longswords as they are and remove rapiers from the game. Thus leaving 1d6 weapons as the most damaging weapon a DEX-based melee weapon user can use.

DEFCON 1 said:

I removed Rapiers from the game and then made Longswords finesse.

At the end of the day... the only question a DM needs to ask is whether or not they want a DEX-based melee weapon user to have access to a 1d8 weapon. If yes, then have one and call it whatever you want-- rapier, longsword, arming sword, sabre, or whatever. If not, then leave longswords as they are and remove rapiers from the game. Thus leaving 1d6 weapons as the most damaging weapon a DEX-based melee weapon user can use.

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Out of curiosity, why did you remove rapiers? Once you make the longsword finesse capable what does removing the rapier do?

DEFCON 1 said:

I removed Rapiers from the game and then made Longswords finesse.

At the end of the day... the only question a DM needs to ask is whether or not they want a DEX-based melee weapon user to have access to a 1d8 weapon.

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It still leaves me wondering why elves and rogues are training in longswords, seems like a waste of time, especially for rogues.

Maybe elves are just bored with their long lifespans and are looking for a way to add a small extra risk to themselves - hidden elven deathwish

A fix I've been happy with is to introduce an "armor" property, which changes the weapon die against a foe in heavy armor. Rapiers get armor (1d6), so they are a little worse against armored opponents. I gave, flails, morningstars and war picks armor (2d4), to give them a niche too.

It's not a huge impact, but I don't think a big change is required.

ExploderWizard said:

Out of curiosity, why did you remove rapiers? Once you make the longsword finesse capable what does removing the rapier do?

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It makes 'rapier' a description a player can apply to their weapon, not a class of game mechanics.

I usually condense my weapons table down to the mechanics and then let the player choose to call them whatever they want. Is there a need to have both the 'dagger' and 'dart' on the weapons table? Nope, they are essentially exactly the same. So I just instead list a weapons as a 1d4 Simple piercing weapon (light, finesse) and let the player who selects it define it how they want. What this gets us is more interesting and varied weapons in the character's hands. No one with Simple proficiency ever fights with a sickle because it is only 1d4 slashing and there is an applicable and better 1d6 Simple slashing weapon available. But if someone wants to fight with 'sickles', then they can select the 1d6 Simple slashing weapon (aka 'handaxe') and just call them sickles.

Same with the longsword/rapier situation. There is a single 1d8 Martial weapon (finesse) on my chart that is nominally called the 'longsword'. It is available for the Rogues and Elves (and others with proficiency) who wish to use them. But when they select it, if they want to call it a 'rapier', or 'cutlass', or 'sabre', or 'elven thinblade' or any other name they can come up with... that's up to them. Likewise, you can also select a 1d8 Martial weapon (Versatile 1d10) that is also nominally called a 'longsword' or 'battleaxe', and a player could take it and call it a 'bastard sword', or 'broadsword', or 'hand-and-a-half sword' or 'flail' or 'warhammer' or 'falchion' whatever they want to too. Entirely up to them.

jaelis said:

A fix I've been happy with is to introduce an "armor" property, which changes the weapon die against a foe in heavy armor. Rapiers get armor (1d6), so they are a little worse against armored opponents. I gave, flails, morningstars and war picks armor (2d4), to give them a niche too.

It's not a huge impact, but I don't think a big change is required.

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How does this fix longswords?