Bard Spell Choice

My old character died in Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, and isn't coming back, so I have to make up a new one.

I'm thinking of creating a bard. I'm starting at 9th level, and am trying to figure out what spells to take. I'm planning on staying straight bard, I think, just to see how they play.

We have a cleric, druid, wizard, and fighter in the party, which means healing is pretty well taken care of, as is straight out damage spells (not that bards have much of that anyway).

Here's my initial spell choice, please let me know what you think:

0th:
Detect Magic
Ghost Sound
Light
Mage Hand
Mending
Read Magic

1st:
Charm Person
Cure Light Wounds
Tasha's Hideous Laughter
Silent Image

2nd:
Alter Self
Detect Thoughts
Hold Person
Summon Swarm

3rd:
Charm Monster
Glibness
Slow

I wish Slow wasn't just superior to Crushing Despair, since that's much more in flavor with the bard, but I just can't justify the difference.

-The Souljourner

What about Suggestion and Confusion? Those are highly useful spells!
Also some defensive spells aren't too bad, like Blink or Displacement.

I also wouldn't take both, Charm Person and Charm Monster. In combat these spells tend to be rather useless anyways (because of the -5 save DC) and one of those is surely enough for out of combat situations.

Comprehend Languages might be more useful than Charm Person, if you already have Charm Monster. Or drop Charm Monster for Confusion?

Bye
Thanee

Moin,

0th: I would exchange Mending or Read Magic with Prestidigitation! Every Bard should have it!

2th: I wouldn't take Summon Swarm. It doesn't fit my picture of a Bard. Tongues or some defensive stuff would be better.

Vraister

Tongues/Comprehend Languages: I spent skillpoints enough so my bard knows every language in the PHB. Unless there are languages not represented there (a possibility, granted) that I run into, I'm all set.

Suggestion seems like a strange choice, seeing as bardic music reproduces that without using a spell slot.

Confusion seems ok, but not as good as I would like. I don't like that 10% of the time the target specifically attacks me. That doesn't sound like a benefit in any way

I really wanted prestidigitation.... but it's really so rarely useful.... I suppose prestidigitation can do about the same as mage hand (albeit with only a 10' range).

I hadn't thought about the doubling up of charm monster and charm person, since I was just kinda going one by one. Hrm...

Replacing Charm Person with Nystul's Magic Aura (I actually had intended to take that one in the first place... it's not very useful, but it can be fun

I think next level I'll take displacement, but for now, I really like glibness, charm monster, and slow.

New spell list:

0th:
Detect Magic
Ghost Sound
Light
Mending
Prestidigitation
Read Magic

1st:
Cure Light Wounds
Nystul's Magic Aura
Tasha's Hideous Laughter
Silent Image

2nd:
Alter Self
Detect Thoughts
Hold Person
Summon Swarm

3rd:
Charm Monster
Glibness
Slow

-The Souljourner

mirror image

I can't believe my eyes... no Mirror Image at level two.

This is the best defensive spell in the game for its level, I'm convinced, no contest.

At your level, each casting lasts 90 minutes, and generates 4-7 images.

If after 90 min. you have no images left, it means:

1) the spell absorbed 4-7 melee/ranged hits that otherwise would have hurt,
2) the spell absorbed 4-7 targeted spells that otherwise would have hurt,
3) a combo of the above.

All of which is AOK! Every time you lose an image, it's a victory... the enemy has wasted its resources, and done no damage.

Yeah, it can be dispelled, and is useless vs. True Sight but really. How often does that happen?

Cast it before every battle, or if you expect a few battles... even better. It lasts 90 min. which is forever.

I wold dump Summon Swarm for MI every day of the week.

Might also want to consider buying 5 scrolls of "silence," it can be very useful, and is now a bard spell.

PS you have no other defensive spells. You really need to have 1-2 available. Spells make better defense than offense, for a Bard.

Also "haste" is simply better than "slow" most of the time... there is no save involved, effects everyone within 30', and even an extra 2-3 attacks per combat make it a great offensive spell (buff spell). haste+inspire courage (at +2/+2 level) is not to be sneezed at. No way.

I'd swap out Slow for Haste.

Crushing Despair is better than Slow if you have taken Spell Focus (Enchantments), which of course you should. Also, Slow lasts for 1 round/level, while Crushing Despair lasts for 1 minute/level.

What Race and Feats are you going to pick?

Just for kicks, here's my suggestions. Note that in 3.5e, Bards are proficent with whips and short bows.

Race: Gnome, Elf or Human

Archer Feats: Spell Focus (Enchantments), Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot (if Human, + Weapon Focus (Short Bow))
- or -
Whipmaster Feats: Spell Focus (Enchantments), Weapon Finesse, Combat Expertise, Improved Disarm (if Human, + Greater Spell Focus (Enchantments))



Cantrips:
- Detect Magic
- Light
- Lullaby
- Message
- Read Magic
- Summon Instrument

1st Level:
- Charm Person
- Cure Light Wounds
- Expeditious Retreat
- Silent Image or Tasha's Hideous Laughter

2nd Level:
- Alter Self
- Detect Thoughts
- Suggestion
- Invisibility or Mirror Image

3rd Level:
- DISPEL MAGIC (!!!)
- Charm Monster or Lesser Geas or Glibness
- Crushing Despair

-- N

PS: Get your hands on some specific Scrolls, too:
- Gaseous Form
- Heroism
- Silence
- Darkness
- See Invisibility
- Remove Fear
- Comprehend Languages
- Tongues
- Cat's Grace
- Eagle's Splendor
- Scrying

Yes, DO NOT forget scrolls.

A 9th level bard has lots of options with scrolls -- a near endless number of choices if you boost up Use Magical Device.

IMNSHO, the bard and druid characters desperately need a good scroll library.

Hehe, oops! Havn't checked the new Confusion table, but I can see that "attack caster" part as a useful way to let the victim provok AoO!

Suggestion is a very good combat spell, as you can turn one attacker against his allies. Bardic Music cannot do that as you need to Fascinate first, which is clearly not possible in a combat situation.

Mirror Image is a great spell, too.

Bye
Thanee

So, I guess charm monster is not terrible useful, since you can't (-5 to DC) do it in combat, and how often are monsters going to be in non-combat situations? Not that often. So I think that's going to drop for blink. It's a lot more random than displacement and a lot more fun... plus you can use it to walk through walls and stuff.

Also, as much as I like the idea of detect thoughts, my bard should be able to convince anyone to simply spill their guts via force of personality, so let's drop that for mirror image.

The problem I have with crushing despair is this - it's an area. Not only that, it's a cone, which is one of the crappiest area effects possible. It'll be very difficult to only hit the enemies and not my allies, unless I'm very careful or get to go first.

Slow, on the other hand, lets you pick targets, so regardless of the position of your allies, it'll always only hit enemies. Haste is great, I'll grant you, but it doesn't help casters at all, and +1 attack for the good guys at 9th level is generally not as good as -1 or -2 attacks for the bad guys.

BTW, I'm being human with the following feats: Spell Focus: Enchantment, Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment, Disguise Spell (Song & Silence), and two others yet to be determined. I was kinda hoping not to be an archer, since my character that just died was an elven archer. Thus, depending on my stat configuration, I'll probably end up with weapon finesse.

Stats I rolled, btw: 16, 16, 15, 13, 11, 10 (very good, I know)

0th:
Ghost Sound
Light
Lullaby
Prestidigitation
Read Magic
Summon Instrument

1st:
Charm Person
Nystul's Magic Aura
Tasha's Hideous Laughter
Silent Image

2nd:
Alter Self
Hold Person
Mirror Image
Summon Swarm

3rd:
Blink
Glibness
Slow

-The Souljourner