Who Was at Fault?

jayoungr · Jun 8, 2018

Ralif Redhammer said:
It sounds like Player A didn’t mean to end up in that position, though.

I don't think Player A was aiming for that specific outcome, but I did think the choice of whacking the hound on the nose when PC-B was holding its jaws open was a strange one. At the time, I was thinking, "Why are you doing this? Why not bite its tail or try to leap on its back--attack anything but the snout?"

Schmoe said:
The GM was "at fault," unless there is something in the Feng Shui rules I'm missing. There was no real reason for the GM to rule that Player A took Player B's place in the hound's mouth, which is ultimately what spoiled the moment.

I kind of suspect the GM was trying to set up Player A to have a cool death for his character (which did happen, as it turned out, although not on this particular maneuver). In post-game discussion it became pretty clear that they'd discussed the possibility of PC-A dying during the final showdown.

That being said, I'm not sure I see why it is such a big deal that it would blow up into drama on the internet.

It didn't; I'm not any of the participants, and none of them even know that I've posted this. It was just a situation that made me think a lot, and I was curious to hear others' perspectives/solutions.

Are there not enough moments to go around in the game?

In the big final showdown, Player B felt like that was her only shot at getting a "moment of glory." She even thought up a one-liner that she didn't get to use.

Lanefan said:
That said, were it my game player A would be taking a huge gamble in that hit-the-nose attack (a called shot of some sort, I assume?): that attack would have been at very high risk of fumbling into player B's character in the hound's mouth on any kind of miss.

No, Feng Shui doesn't penalize for that kind of thing. In fact, it encourages and rewards "stunting."

AriochQ said:
Did the GM know that player A had the breath fire down the gullet plan?

Yes. (It was Player B, actually.) She announced her intentions in obvious delight as soon as the GM told her that her PC was holding the hound's jaws open.

Riley37 · Jun 8, 2018

jayoungr said:
I don't think Player A was aiming for that specific outcome, but I did think the choice of whacking the hound on the nose when PC-B was holding its jaws open was a strange one. At the time, I was thinking, "Why are you doing this? Why not bite its tail or try to leap on its back--attack anything but the snout?"

If I were Player A, I would have PC-A prepare to snatch PC-B out of the hound's mouth, immediately after PC-B delivered the fire breath. Isn't that the obvious thing to do, if you want to end the scene high-fiving your still-alive teammate, over the corpse of the hound? Either that, or grab something handy, to throw (or pour) down the hound's mouth as a follow-up; ideally something which would synergize with the fire, but choking the hound on a big rock could also become plausible, depending on how the hound reacted to fire blown into its lungs.

Sounds like Player A and the GM were pursuing a plan or goal, which they had not discussed with Player B, and they did so in a way which left Player B with the short end of the stick.

D1Tremere · Jun 8, 2018

Assigning blame is not a productive path. If one or more people didn't like the way events transpired, that is a great opportunity to communicate with each other so that things go more smoothly in future.

pemerton · Jun 8, 2018

jayoungr said:
Was Player A too aggressive? Was Player B too sensitive? Did the GM handle it badly? If this situation came up at your table, what would you do?

Riley37 said:
Sounds like Player A and the GM were pursuing a plan or goal, which they had not discussed with Player B, and they did so in a way which left Player B with the short end of the stick.

That's how it sounds to me too.

I don't think players are always obliged to have their PCs cooperate; but actively thwarting is one step further along that path, and though I'm not against that either, as such, there's a time and a place. What you describe just seems like it was poorly conceived and executed by A and the GM.

Bagpuss · Jun 8, 2018

Umbran said:
I'd say the GM could have handled it much better. It wasn't really A's fault at that moment. Nor B's. It was the GM's choice that made the die roll of A steal B's setup. The GM could have had nearly anything else happen, to allow both to have a good shining moment, but they didn't.

I agree with Umbran (please note it in your diaries). Personally I would have had Player B swallowed whole and upchucked when they breathed fire, if they did the killing blow then the hound's flesh would just burn to ash around them leaving them standing in encaged in the creatures ribcage. No penalties for being in the creature's belly because it is Feng Shui, if anything they get a bonus.

lowkey13 · Jun 8, 2018

*Deleted by user*

jayoungr · Jun 8, 2018

D1Tremere said:
If one or more people didn't like the way events transpired, that is a great opportunity to communicate with each other so that things go more smoothly in future.

This was done; what do you think of the GM's response to concerns being expressed?

Do you think Player B should also have spoken to Player A?

Flexor the Mighty! · Jun 8, 2018

Honestly I would have told the player that is how it goes and I hope they aren't going to act like this all the time when they don't get the "special moment to shine" like they were expecting. But I'm used to gaming with close friends that I have no issue telling to sack up when I think they are getting pouty.

But I have no idea how the mechanics of that game work so maybe the GM ruled poorly.

Riley37 · Jun 8, 2018

lowkey13 said:
They say you’re a madman, until they realize you were a Prophet.

Do you mean that you can sense evil, you can pick out dangerous creatures, in a special, magical way?

Can you, as an action, open your awareness to detect such forces? Can you use this feature a number of times equal to 1 + your Charisma modifier?

Look at PHB page 84. Look in a mirror. You will see the same thing, in both.

billd91 · Jun 8, 2018

Player A's dice roll isn't to blame - that's the GM deflecting. The GM cut her off at the knees when he knew she had a plan she thought was really cool. That's a GM screw-up. He should have followed the player's lead and he really should apologize to her for screwing it up.