Multi classing Objections: Rules vs. Fluff? - Page 23
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  1. #221
    The Great Druid (Lvl 17)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonSong View Post
    How about my previous idea, that the eldritch patron doesn't really need consent to begin with? What if the patron is granting dark powers without the new warlock's knowledge, or even against his/her wishes? "Let's empower this servant of deity so the dark powers eventually corrupt him/her, even if I don't get their soul, them using the power I gave them is advertising and in the long run undermines faith in this deity. Besides good souls are worth more."

    Also, who says it has to be you the one to sell your soul? There is precedent at least in modern media that someone sells their newborn's soul for power or something. (I can think of one DC character with that backstory, don't remember the name just the backstory, and the whole premise of the Reaper series of a few years back)
    The “selling your soul” was just an example. Your idea of the patron granting them without their knowledge is also a cool one. My point is that there is theoretically a benefit to the warlock’s patron, whether the character chooses to remain a warlock or not.

    Whereas in Realmslore, and sometimes D&D lore, editors gain power through active faith and worship. The relationship is different. A divine class is somewhat evangelical, and as long as the later classes help promote the deity, then they can do so without losing any of their divine benefits.?

    No such agreement is necessary for a warlock. I think the game leaves it pretty open to interpretation, although that could also be because the cleric/deity relationship has been well established in the D&D world since the beginning, and it bears a close resemblance to the concept of faith and religion in the real world.

    The warlock concept most closely mirrors the idea that the patron derived a benefit in some other way. Since there isn’t a clear way for them to demand service from the warlock in a way similar to the cleric, it seems pretty logical that the benefit may come later, such as after the death of the warlock.

    The idea of patrons actively trying to influence them is an interesting twist. It would lend itself well to a mechanic like the corruption mechanic in the 5e Adventures in Middle Earth.
    XP MoonSong gave XP for this post

  2. #222
    Spellbinder (Lvl 16)

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCosmicKid View Post
    You appear to have missed my ironical tone and my point: what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If the wizard is superfluous because the warlock can be refluffed into a book mage, then the sorcerer and warlock are just as superfluous because the wizard can be just as easily refluffed into an innate or pact mage. If, on the other hand, the fluff of the wizard is an obstacle to playing an innate mage with it such that a distinct sorcerer class is required, then the fluff of the warlock is just as much an obstacle to playing a book mage with it such that a distinct wizard class is required. It's really just a matter of one's approach to fluff. 1E and 2E adhered to the first philosophy; 3E and onward have held to the second.
    But you literally can't refluff a wizard into something that isn't a wizard, the mechanics get in the way of the new fluff. Yeah my patron gave me power in the form of a spellbook that I have to mantain just like anybody who hasn't sold their soul for it/magic runs through my veins, so much that I depend of an external item to cast spells and if it was lost or destroyed I'd be rendered powerless.

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