So I ran a 6-8 encounter day...

ad_hoc

(they/them)
In some circumstances though, these time pressures are not realistic. There are valid adventures where there isn't a time pressure. In some dungeon (some ancient tomb you are looting)... you can leave and come back tomorrow.

That doesn't sound very exciting or fun to me. An action movie where the heroes take their time and methodically go about their business just doesn't sound appealing.

I also can't think of any adventures I've played in recent memory where this is the case. All of the WotC adventures have been like this. The only place they have faltered have been the random encounters over wilderness travel.

In other cases, there may be a time pressure, but the number of encounters per day is not going to be that high. The party must hurry from the barony of Bla to the capital of SuchandSuch to stop an ursuper from being crowned. It's 2 day's travel. Would it be fun to have an encounter during the trip? Sure. Would there be 6-8 encounters per day on a well traveled, safe road? Probably not...

Is it fun though? I would much rather just have that take place off camera and move on with the game.

Captain America: The Winter Soldier has a great example of this. They need to break into a military facility to retrieve Falcon's suit. So they just say 'oh that will be easy' and then 5 seconds later they have it. They just handled it all off camera because it would be boring to watch.

My rule of thumb is to ask whether this story would make for a good action movie.
 

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5ekyu

Hero
I've gotten away from planning "X" number of short rests between Long Rests or how many Long Rests the characters take between points in the story. The story is the story, if they need to rest and can rest, then they rest. If they can't, but need to then they need to figure something out. Granted, I am a little forgiving with short rests, powers that recover on a short rest I prefer to treat more like encounter powers in 4e. Unless they are going right into the next fight then if I can assume they have had some type of break in the action I let short rest powers recover. Perhaps this is too lenient, but I find it works fairly well and keeps things moving.
Its easier for me to just think "no pressure so assume they are rested" when the setups dont include natural time pressure.

My players see often that theclock moves for NPCs too and by their nature there are often compelling reason to press on.

This means that they do rest when they can based on character and circumstance but the short-v-long differences are seen frequently enough to feel balanced.
 

OB1

Jedi Master
Let's see, last week I ran an 8 encounter adventuring day. I tend to use these types of Mission Days as the end result of a few sessions worth of Exploration Days with a primary focus on exploration and social pillars while the party decides what to do for their next Mission. Combat on Exploration days tends not to push them to their limit (unless they do something that forces the issue like attacking something far more powerful than them). Mission Days always have one or more goals that either cannot be accomplished or would make accomplishing the goals far more difficult if the party were to stop to take a long rest during it.

17th Level Party
Rogue Assassin
Battlemaster Fighter/Light Cleric
Hunter Ranger

Primary goal - A coordinated attack on an Illithid Hive in Pandemonium that has been attracting an alarming number of Illithid ships to it and is believed to be planning a major offensive against the PCs home world of Duotin. Party is a strike force meant to sneak in the "back door" get to the mother brain and kill it while the main force attacked and soaked up the bulk of the Illithid forces. Players are put under a non-detection spell prior to leaving, giving them 8 hours of cover against the mother brain.

Encounter 1 - An Elder Tempest had taken residence at the boarder of Pandemonium and Limbo, blocking the way to the back door. Get past it and into the tunnels to the hive.

Encounter 2 - Party makes it's way through the tunnels of Pandemonium. Survival checks lead to an encounter with 50 wights, cleric turns them, they continue on without wasting time backtracking. They also avoid 2 other potential encounters.

Encounter 3 - On a short rest at the back door waiting for the main force to get into position, a party of 4 adventurers (standard fighter, thief, wizard, cleric) driven insane in the tunnels of Pandemonium happens upon the party and tries to steal their stuff. Players persuade them to move along without using resources or violence. This allows them to complete their short rest and not have to save against the madness of the winds of Pandemonium.

Encounter 4 - Easy encounter with 2 Mind Flayers just inside the back door. Players set up a surprise round and waste them before they get a turn. Unknown to the party, had this fight lasted more than 1 round, an alert would have brought an additional 8 Mind Flayers to attack and made checks for sneaking around inside more difficult.

Encounter 5 - Teleportation block - Party was given a special magic item that would block all forms of teleportation in and out of the hive to prevent plane shifting out by the enemy. A failed stealth check in placing the item resulted in a fight with 2 mindwitness' and a party member almost being dropped off the edge of a 'bottomless' pit.

Encounter 6 - Sneaking through the hive. A series of checks leads to party discovering some of the secrets of the Hive that have the potential to help them later as well as the fate of a Tier 1 NPC friend who had gone missing years ago. A couple of missed checks lead to 2 quick fights with 2 and 3 mind flayers as well as an increase in patrols. Ultimately though, they make it to their objective

Encounter 7 - The mother brain. But something is off, it seems weak and listless, (4 levels of exhaustion). The party kills it easily... too easily...

Encounter 8 - The Illithilitch. An old enemy of the party, the Mind Flayer Zoltar, has been doing insane experiments here in Pandemonium, connecting himself to three other mother brains and using them to gain immense power. Basically a variant on the Illithilitch, but not undead and with some other powers changed up. He attacks the party and now we're in for a big fight. After he get's two of them locked down with mind blast, the Fighter is able to put Zoltar down, only to see him resurrected by 'consuming' a mother brain. This does release the stun lock on the rest of the party. Fight continues with party getting locked up and then saved by killing Zoltar again. Party could have attempted to disconnect the brains from Zoltar (some of the hints they got earlier) which would have reduced his 'lives'. Released Mother Brains would have attacked both Zoltar and the party. Zoltar tries to plane shift out when he is on his last life but can't due to successful Encounter 5 result, so the party is able to finish him once and for all. With Zoltar dead the rest of the Mind Flayer forces are easily routed by the main attacking group of Githzerai.

End result - 1 PC dead via Zoltar's Power Word kill (brought back by revivify), 2 more with less than 1/3 HP, Ranger with 1 1st and 1 2nd level spell remaining, Battlemaster/Cleric tapped out of spells, battle dice, action surges, indomitable and healing surge.

This was run in a single 6 hour session with perhaps an hour worth of breaks sprinkled in. Theatre of the Mind was used for all but Encounters 5, 7 and 8. Party will level up to 8 after next long rest.
 

smbakeresq

Explorer
I run my entire game this way. The game is just much better IMO when players are pushed to the brink. Now your players have to adjust.

The adjustment is this:

1. Each player has a finite resource pool;

2. The group has a total resource the is larger then the combination of each player IF they play as a group.

3. Each player must decide each encounter how to ration their individual resources to maximize the group resource pool, which means:

4. Player conserves resources this encounter to use them in later encounters, thereby forcing another player to spend more resources this encounter to over come it; or

5. Player burned resources this encounter to let other players conserve resources to use in later encounters.



This dynamic greatly changes the game, and is confusing for most players. They do not understand how to spend resources now to let the group conserve more later, nor do they understand how conserve resources now to nova later. It’s almost always the video game model of nova, then rest, then nova again.

To me the difference between SR and LR classes isn’t that different if you know what you are doing and how you interact with the group resource pool, but the game has been essentially been preached to be 2 encounters, SR, 2 encounters, LR. If you do that players monsters are less of a challenge, the idea for the bad guys in general is to wear you down until you reach the BBEG, that’s why he is the BBEG. PCs should NEVER reach the BBEG with everything on tap, that defeats the purpose.
 

iserith

Magic Wordsmith
I find that the 6-8 adventure day is realistic only in certain circumstances - like in this instance there was a strong "time pressure". Now - let's be honest here, the party was going to arrive in the nick of time as long as they made reasonable efforts to hurry... BUUUT if they hadn't pushed, "oh I don't have the right spell list for this let's go tomorrow" or whatever... well they would have arrived too late.

In some circumstances though, these time pressures are not realistic. There are valid adventures where there isn't a time pressure. In some dungeon (some ancient tomb you are looting)... you can leave and come back tomorrow.

In a dungeon or the wilderness surrounding it, the time pressure is wandering monsters and random encounters. You just have to set the frequency of the checks to time the PCs spend. In my Sunless Citadel game, for example, there's a wandering monster check in the dungeon every 10 minutes on an 18+ on a d20. (19+ if kobold faction is eliminated, 20 if kobolds and goblins are eliminated.) In the wilderness outside the dungeon, there's a random encounter check every 4 hours if the PCs are static, as with a camp.

So sure, take 30 minutes to search for secret doors in this chamber if you want, but I'm making 3 wandering monster checks. Or sure, go right ahead and take that long rest - but it's not safe. And if you have to abandon your camp and run because the random encounter came up hostile and also too deadly, you're going to have to start that rest over again.
 

robus

Lowcountry Low Roller
Supporter
In a dungeon or the wilderness surrounding it, the time pressure is wandering monsters and random encounters. You just have to set the frequency of the checks to time the PCs spend. In my Sunless Citadel game, for example, there's a wandering monster check in the dungeon every 10 minutes on an 18+ on a d20. (19+ if kobold faction is eliminated, 20 if kobolds and goblins are eliminated.) In the wilderness outside the dungeon, there's a random encounter check every 4 hours if the PCs are static, as with a camp.

So sure, take 30 minutes to search for secret doors in this chamber if you want, but I'm making 3 wandering monster checks. Or sure, go right ahead and take that long rest - but it's not safe. And if you have to abandon your camp and run because the random encounter came up hostile and also too deadly, you're going to have to start that rest over again.

How do you measure game world time passing? A search activity is 10 minutes?
 

iserith

Magic Wordsmith
How do you measure game world time passing? A search activity is 10 minutes?

In that particular game, there's an exploration phase and each round of that phase is 10 minutes. During that time, the PCs can generally perform one task each which can apply to around a 1000-square foot area. At the end of each round, I make a wandering monster check. They can then keep exploring it for another round of tasks or they can move on.
 

Henry

Autoexreginated
That doesn't sound very exciting or fun to me. An action movie where the heroes take their time and methodically go about their business just doesn't sound appealing.

I also can't think of any adventures I've played in recent memory where this is the case. All of the WotC adventures have been like this. The only place they have faltered have been the random encounters over wilderness travel.



Is it fun though? I would much rather just have that take place off camera and move on with the game.

Captain America: The Winter Soldier has a great example of this. They need to break into a military facility to retrieve Falcon's suit. So they just say 'oh that will be easy' and then 5 seconds later they have it. They just handled it all off camera because it would be boring to watch.

My rule of thumb is to ask whether this story would make for a good action movie.

While true from a cinematic perspective, it strains credulity for both players and GM in my experience to have wall-to-wall encounters like this. The TV show 24 was critically acclaimed and beloved by many people... until the second and third seasons, because having non-stop hour-by-hour action begins to look extremely implausible.

That’s my biggest problem with frequent days with 3 or more encounters, because it almost never happens outside of a war zone or battlefield. To me, if it becomes the rule rather than the exception, then the exciting becomes commonplace, and that’s no fun either. In most cases, there’s not a time pressure, and if there isn’t, then the GM has no control over when the PCs rest or not, leaving them to be as break-neck or as scenic as they want to be.
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
I don't see what your Paladin player is complaining about. This looks like part of a typical adventuring day to any 1e player/character....

Yeah, and the DM recommended would be two short rests between every long rest, and this was one one. So the long-rest and at-will primary classes were on point, and the short-rest classes were at a disadvantage, not the other way around.

It's not "disadvantaging the paladin", it's "recalibrating the paladin to designer expectations" - because it can get very comfortable to Divine Strike all the time and feel tough, but in the 6-8 encounter per day design space using divine strike is a choice and a trade-off that you won't have the slot for later.
 

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