So I ran a 6-8 encounter day...

[Mistwell]

We're playing in Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan, from Tales From the Yawning Portal. Due to special circumstances with the adventure, we're well past 8 encounters with no long rest at this point I believe.

 

[Ancalagon]

We're playing in Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan, from Tales From the Yawning Portal. Due to special circumstances with the adventure, we're well past 8 encounters with no long rest at this point I believe.

One thing that can make a difference is knowledge. The party may, or may not, know how "long" the adventure is. They could have caught up with the thief at encounter 2... or encounter 15.

When a party *knows* that there will be a *long* time (and lots of encounters) before rest is possible, then they play differently. The cleric blew a 4rth level slot to cast confusion on the first encounters - now it made the fight even easier, but it was a waste of a 4rth level slot. Had the player known how long the day was going to be, I bet they wouldn't have done that.

 

[5ekyu]

One thing that can make a difference is knowledge. The party may, or may not, know how "long" the adventure is. They could have caught up with the thief at encounter 2... or encounter 15.

When a party *knows* that there will be a *long* time (and lots of encounters) before rest is possible, then they play differently. The cleric blew a 4rth level slot to cast confusion on the first encounters - now it made the fight even easier, but it was a waste of a 4rth level slot. Had the player known how long the day was going to be, I bet they wouldn't have done that.

In my experience "knowing" is not necessary. They only have to be aware that it's likely or possible. In other words, as long as they dont think pace is meaningless and they can rest freely, the pressure is there and choices adjust.

That is easy to create plausibly in a great many events.

But I make no bones about it and have no problem with pcs taking tests as they want... whether they are right or wrong about circumstances.

 

[Zardnaar]

I hate splitting stuff like this over multiple sessions. It might be a couple of weeks or a month between sessions depending on real life.

It works OK for Dungeon crawls around the sweet spot (level 3-7 or so). I preferred the 4 encounters thing 3E assumed, one of the few things I liked from 3E.

 

[smbakeresq]

"PCs should NEVER reach the BBEG with everything on tap, that defeats the purpose."

So a great session or three i ran saw my players trying to rescue hostages and take out slaver camp.

Due to a non-linear structure they actually met the BBEG basically as a patrol type encounter. They did not know that and a fight ensued.

At first it took a few rounds before they realized and shifted to full power try and survive mode. Net result they took him out but were very depleted AND they various raider low lifes started breaking down into chaotic situations...

So now instead of an organized group ready to ransom they had lotsa different divisions and ready to make run with whatever they had.

So the PCs had to move faster, encountering weaker foes but with their own tanks on empty as they tried to get to the hostages.

It was a great set of epidodes on its own but also, as a larger picture thing, it showed them never to expect any NEVERs ever again as far as story or structure goes and handle situations as they come.

So it was such outlier and exceptional circumstance that this occurred that you remembered it clearly and vividly and you posted here. You have made more point for me, thanks!

 

[Mistwell]

One thing that can make a difference is knowledge. The party may, or may not, know how "long" the adventure is. They could have caught up with the thief at encounter 2... or encounter 15.

When a party *knows* that there will be a *long* time (and lots of encounters) before rest is possible, then they play differently. The cleric blew a 4rth level slot to cast confusion on the first encounters - now it made the fight even easier, but it was a waste of a 4rth level slot. Had the player known how long the day was going to be, I bet they wouldn't have done that.

Yeah our party did not know this was going to happen. Druid didn't even prepare cure wounds, just healing word.

 

[smbakeresq]

One thing that can make a difference is knowledge. The party may, or may not, know how "long" the adventure is. They could have caught up with the thief at encounter 2... or encounter 15.

When a party *knows* that there will be a *long* time (and lots of encounters) before rest is possible, then they play differently. The cleric blew a 4rth level slot to cast confusion on the first encounters - now it made the fight even easier, but it was a waste of a 4rth level slot. Had the player known how long the day was going to be, I bet they wouldn't have done that.

That's exactly what I was discussing. The party should never know, but in todays game they have been "trained" that it will be 1-3 encounters then a chance to get their resources back. When you push them past that you can literally see concern on their faces.

As far as your situation, your cleric using that spell then conserved resources for the rest of the party for later, which is a good thing. It also means that in later encounters someone else has to pull the load, which gives each PC a chance to shine. You are going to have to spend resources every encounter to overcome it, who spends what resource in which encounter is the decision that groups and PCs have to make. The group should discuss this right at the table, between encounters or even during them.

This also highlights proper group composition. While each player should be allowed to play any type of PC he wants, each player should also be aware of the group dynamic as they build their PC to build an effective group. When I get a chance to play, I always pick what PC I will play last, so I can build around the group needs. Being the "glue" PC also means you are in general less important in each individual encounter but more active on all encounter on the day.


As a side note, when I do this I also build PC that has different equipment needs then other PC so their is no competition for magic items.

 

[smbakeresq]

In a dungeon or the wilderness surrounding it, the time pressure is wandering monsters and random encounters. You just have to set the frequency of the checks to time the PCs spend. In my Sunless Citadel game, for example, there's a wandering monster check in the dungeon every 10 minutes on an 18+ on a d20. (19+ if kobold faction is eliminated, 20 if kobolds and goblins are eliminated.) In the wilderness outside the dungeon, there's a random encounter check every 4 hours if the PCs are static, as with a camp.

So sure, take 30 minutes to search for secret doors in this chamber if you want, but I'm making 3 wandering monster checks. Or sure, go right ahead and take that long rest - but it's not safe. And if you have to abandon your camp and run because the random encounter came up hostile and also too deadly, you're going to have to start that rest over again.

And this is %100 how the game was designed from the early editions. There was always the bail out where you rolled a random encounter, then the random encounter table entry you rolled was "no encounter." In PoTA the adventures have spots written right in where its safe for the PCs to rest, that's good design.

 

[5ekyu]

So it was such outlier and exceptional circumstance that this occurred that you remembered it clearly and vividly and you posted here. You have made more point for me, thanks!

You are perhaps projecting.

It wasnt an outlier in my games. My structure as far as hooks, plots, structure is a lot less arranged than the somewhat absolutes you are describing. The BBEG boss fight when it exists may occur at any time not just at its appropriate time after PCs have been whittled down by say "rooms 1-3" of a 5 room dungeon or whatever.

The key point for me is the mix of unexpected and consistent.

Some sessions feature "risk" without time pressure and the PCs can take lotsa rests as they see fit.

Others more like your keep pressure on preference with always doing a worn down party vs boss fight.

Others the biggest hit might be at the beginning but then time pressure - take off on ye olde "place collapsing after boss dies" trope, just expanded to be significant part of story, not epilog to cut scene.

In my games, it has seemed to produce best resukts to have a decent number of "structures" that each makes sense in the actual setup. That seems to add a lot more for the PCs to consider than a typical three act or five room style does, especially one which includes "nevers".

One technique i use in my games is to have every pc hand me a playing card face down at start of each session.

Value determine severity.
Suit determines type.
Clubs fight.
Spades environment threat.
Hearts opportunity for aid or rescue.
Diamonds greed or loot.

I use those for cards to help flavor the episode - particularly when it comes to uncontrolled or random elements.

This means for both them and their adversaries sometimes random stuff gets in the way or really alters "the plot".

Good example was major storm blowing in near climax forcing both side to engage with unexpected issues. Even had one lead to PCs and adversaries working together briefly, followed by resuming their conflict tho with several good RP angles which played out.

But they deal me an ace of clubs and VBEG boss fight might be then - full or not.

 

[smbakeresq]

Yeah our party did not know this was going to happen. Druid didn't even prepare cure wounds, just healing word.

Its situations like you are running Healer and Inspiring Leader feat really shines and total support classes like Life Cleric gain in importance.