DM advice needed - my party one-round BBEG's

ad_hoc · Oct 14, 2018

biktin said:
Yes, this has happened when the party have had a full rest. The last time they had rested because they were so totally worn down - no spells, very low HP. They had spent time setting up and ensuring perimeters etc.

That'll do it.

If they have complete control then of course it will be easy.

Taking a long rest releases the tension. The BBEG 'fight' isn't climactic because there is no rising action to it.

They have no time constraints, the know the layout of where this monster is, and the monster isn't protecting itself. This is the sort of thing we would handle off camera at our table. You defeat so and so, okay let's move on.

If they are too worn out from the fights before, well then, they will need to choose whether to push it and risk a TPK or run away and fail the objective.

biktin · Oct 14, 2018

Bupp said:
Save yourself some work, do a google search for 5e conversions of the adventure that you are running. Other DMs have done the work, find one that fits your groups style and use their conversions.

I did that for the first couple of adventures, but after that I couldn't find anything available. Although it has been mentioned on this here forum ( http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...ve-been-converted-to-5e&p=6770138#post6770138 ).

However, I feel with the advice I've gotten here I could be more able to do a good job of it myself.

UngeheuerLich · Oct 14, 2018

Have closed doors.
Also helps versus familiars.
Have an alarm spell ready. Best a silent one. Could turn around surprise.
Pass without tace does not make you invisible. Not at all. So illuminate your lair.
Have guards on duty that just fokus on those closed doors.
That's it. No surprises anymore.

biktin · Oct 14, 2018

UngeheuerLich said:
Have closed doors.
Pass without tace does not make you invisible. Not at all. So illuminate your lair.

So this has come up a few times so I thought I'd mention how it plays out - perhaps I'm doing it wrong. Roguish ranger stealths up to do some reconnaissance and spots the lay of the land from tunnel entrance/doorway. Party plan a "surprise" co-ordinated attack. The party stealth up to get into positions and then "jump out" into view to launch an attack.

At this point, the melee will either dash or complement with ranged attacks (bows etc), but the ranged specialists will unleash their strongest spells on a single target. If the boss lasts the round, the melee will be in range and finish them off.

One thing that I might be doing wrong is allowing a "surprise round" (e.g the monsters can't act that round) when they have plainly come into view?

Sorcerers Apprentice · Oct 14, 2018

biktin said:
So this has come up a few times so I thought I'd mention how it plays out - perhaps I'm doing it wrong. Roguish ranger stealths up to do some reconnaissance and spots the lay of the land from tunnel entrance/doorway. Party plan a "surprise" co-ordinated attack. The party stealth up to get into positions and then "jump out" into view to launch an attack.

At this point, the melee will either dash or complement with ranged attacks (bows etc), but the ranged specialists will unleash their strongest spells on a single target. If the boss lasts the round, the melee will be in range and finish them off.

One thing that I might be doing wrong is allowing a "surprise round" (e.g the monsters can't act that round) when they have plainly come into view?

You've got the rules correct, that's how surprise works in 5e as long as your stealth rolls are successful.

The boss should protect himself by posting sentries that make it impossible for anyone to sneak close enough to pull that tactic off.

Ancalagon · Oct 14, 2018

Your PCs have hit the big league. The villains they now face shouldn't be vulnerable to the kind of tactics that worked well vs lesser foes...

Ralif Redhammer · Oct 15, 2018

I’ve been in a similar situation, with a large party that can really alpha-strike a BBEG. The tricks I’ve come up with:

1- Put an encounter right before the BBEG. Not a super-hard one, but one to whittle down their resources; then, have the BBEG show up immediately.
2- Increase BBEG HP/AC/Saves.
3- As mentioned earlier in the thread, customize their lair to have all sorts of things the BBEG can take advantage of.
4- As iconic as the big fight versus one big bad is, sometimes, you just need to change it to multiple, equally powerful foes. If the module says “fight a blue dragon,” rather than buffing the one up, just add another blue dragon.

The one thing I’ve found with surrounding the boss with mooks is that if they can, a lot of PCs will still focus fire on the BBEG. Once the boss goes down, the mooks are just clean-up.

shadowoflameth · Oct 15, 2018

In 4e there was a gremlin skulker that had a nasty defensive ability. They became invisible when an enemy was adjacent to them. I made them guards. As the epic rogue approached the door, the guards became instantly new someone was there and they became invisible.

You can also set some traps which don't have to be too awful by themselves, just make it at least a little challenging to approach the baddies lair. You can also consider some enemies that do something when they are hit or killed like the balor exploding or the rust monster ruining your weapon.

S'mon · Oct 15, 2018

I ran the first four books of both Runelords & Shattered Star in one campaign in 5e; PCs went from 1st to 18th though only one was there for the whole thing. http://smonscurseofthecrimsonthrone.blogspot.com/2017/10/ep-64-22-3064713-ar-on-mokmurian.html

I don't recall any major issues - some boring static dungeons in Shattered Star, especially Book 4. The PF stats convert to 5e very easily, and 5e has far fewer I Win buttons. About the most I added was a couple of summoned owl bears to the final battle with Mokmurian, mostly an excuse to use my owlbear minis!

I generally increased hit points and damage by +50% from Pathfinder numbers, while AC was typically divide by 2 & add 5.

The Crimson Binome · Oct 15, 2018

biktin said:
One thing that I might be doing wrong is allowing a "surprise round" (e.g the monsters can't act that round) when they have plainly come into view?

There's some debate on it. To the best of my interpretation, it should be impossible to sneak past someone who is looking at the open space you are trying to pass through. If the BBEG is in a room that only has one entrance, and someone is looking at that entrance, then surprise is ruined when anyone tries to enter the room.

Out of combat, the rules for surprise are supposed to model sneaking up behind someone who isn't looking in your direction, which is up to DM discretion since there's no rule for facing in this game. It should be basically impossible for anyone alert to their surroundings, unless you're invisible or something.