Making magic feel "Dangerous"

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Casting a spell becomes an event which draws all the focus of play onto the spell-caster. Thus, you can't have all that spotlight being accrued to the one player all the time, and so you can't have him casting spells all the time.
There is also a valid point in that which not many people notice ... in some games even something which is technically a disadvantage is also a limelight sink hole and so they limit how many you can take because of it.

The computing the volume of a fireball effect was bad enough ;) no we will avoid excess adjudication.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
My homebrew solution was to make Magic a skill and allow a Wizard to Cast a Spell of any level (DC rising per level) with significant backlash for failure

A Wizard could invest there own or someone elses blood (HP) to lower the DC
 

Celebrim

Legend
My homebrew solution was to make Magic a skill and allow a Wizard to Cast a Spell of any level (DC rising per level) with significant backlash for failure

A Wizard could invest there own or someone elses blood (HP) to lower the DC

I have theoretical rules for allowing a wizard to use Spellcraft to cast a spell of any level, but they are tuned so to make it obvious why no one tries this - low chances of success, considerable hassle, and high penalities for near failures. There is this thing called 'Spell Burn' where you cast the spell without powering it, and so it powers itself with your soul. And if it kills you, then there is a nasty sort of undead called a 'Spell Wight'.

If you do this sort of thing you also have to watch with making skills useful because RAW rules tend to vastly underestimate the value of skill based magic on the assumption that skills aren't very useful.

More commonly though, having your concentration broken while casting a spell leads to spell fumbles of various sorts. I have some fumble charts for when spell-casting goes badly.
 

Teemu

Hero
The simplest option would probably be to adapt Dark Sun's arcane defiling to encompass all the power sources you want, and to cause the damage to the caster only. Perhaps make it compulsory, and extend it to encounter powers (but with a lower benefit and reduced cost, maybe just a +2 bonus on the attack roll). This adapted arcane defiling would make magic more dangerous, but still offer something beneficial too -- not sure how great it is to nerf all or most non-martial powers in an edition like 4e.
 


Making magic feel dangerous involves making it mysterious and unpredictable. Conceptually, I've wanted to do that for nearly thirty years, and I've experimented with a wide variety of mechanics.

What I've discovered is that mysterious and unpredictable magic is not really suitable for table top play unless you also are going to make magic super rare, because it imposes too many burdens on the DM.

Magic in D&D is the province of the player. The spells have always been a part of the PH, even back in the day when DMG's had warnings on them that they shouldn't be read by players. The spells are thus inherently known and not mysterious, and to a large extent selected and controlled by the players. The players may occasionally run into magic in a dungeon which is dangerous and mysterious, and Gygax was very much a believer in magical weirdness in dungeons, but their own magic is not numinous to them.

This has an incredibly positive benefit on play. Whenever a player wants to cast a spell, it's up to the player to bring the mechanics of the spell into play and resolve them. The DM basically has no mental or mechanical burden when spells are used. If spells are to be numinous and dangerous, the mental and mechanical burden falls to the DM.

The same is largely true of magic items in the possession of the players.

Because of this, if you want to make spells or magic items "dangerous", you also have to greatly limit their availability and ubiquity in the game because dangerous magic imposes such a high mental burden on the DM that you won't be able to keep track of it all otherwise, and such a high mechanical burden on play that whenever magic is used it will slow resolution down to a crawl. Casting a spell becomes an event which draws all the focus of play onto the spell-caster. Thus, you can't have all that spotlight being accrued to the one player all the time, and so you can't have him casting spells all the time.

If you want magic to be super rare, all this is fine. But don't expect it to feel very much like D&D. Likewise, if you had some sort of computer program that was keeping track of the hidden information and the mechanical resolution for you, this would work, but you can't easily do it on a table top.

I think what you describe is ONE option, not the only one. Ask anyone who ever played a caster in Dragonquest, it is VERY VERY possible to make a simple, even dull and boring, and incredibly dangerous, magic system.

The question is more like "why would anyone run a PC who risks death every time he exercises his ability?" If magic is really hazardous enough to SEEM hazardous, then it is pretty much a given that it will have to ACTUALLY be pretty hazardous, at least over the longer term. Dragonquest perfectly illustrates this, there's a pretty modest chance of miscasting, and MOST such failures are only modestly harmful. However, if you run your character for any real length of time and use any spells that are not just trivial (IE anything that can have a meaningful effect on the game) then pretty soon you WILL at least leave yourself totally crippled for some critical period of time, if not outright dead. The thing is, it doesn't really add any mystery to the game, its purely a brute function of dice and probabilities and you could calculate the exact probabilities involved pretty trivially if you cared to.

Now, a COOLER system might be one that really let you trade off effectiveness for danger in interesting ways. That would almost surely start to get into your 'DM workload' though. Still, it would at least have the virtue that it would be a choice as to how much this was engaged. a character could ping around with 'at will' type level powers and be modestly effective, without invoking any of the real big danger/mystery part of things. Or they could dig down and do crazy stuff, making dire promises, sacrificing souls, whatever, in order to have a more serious impact. Some of that could involve "well, if you fail that Arcana check then the demon is going to break loose..." etc.
 

Even just knocking the mage out is flavorful.

Spell Called Enter sandman after casting you get dust on your hands and have to make an easy ish saving throw or be affected by your casting and fall asleep

Spelll Fireball you get minor fire damage when casting

Hypnotic Whirl may make you dizzy and if you are hit in the round following you are automatically prone.

These can be spell specific implications and after effects. They do not take a bunch of extra adjudication .... are they more mysterious? shrug they do feel flavorful and dangerous, and yup they might alter the method for deciding optimal play.

HoML could do this. Instead of paying a VP cost for casting a Vitality power, you could instead choose to accept a 'limitation' or a 'curse' for example. This could be a cool way to allow characters to 'push'. I'll have to think about it. Limiting it to 'casters' might be cool, though TBH I am having a hard time seeing either thematic or mechanical reasons for doing that in a 4e-type game. 4e itself could presumably adopt the same approach.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
HoML could do this. Instead of paying a VP cost for casting a Vitality power, you could instead choose to accept a 'limitation' or a 'curse' for example. This could be a cool way to allow characters to 'push'. I'll have to think about it. Limiting it to 'casters' might be cool, though TBH I am having a hard time seeing either thematic or mechanical reasons for doing that in a 4e-type game. 4e itself could presumably adopt the same approach.

Oh I am certain it is quite adaptable to extreme martial maneuvers.
 

Myrhdraak

Explorer
One option would be to introduce danger to ritual casting rather than normal spells. Here you will have the risk of failing an arcana check with dire consequences. You could introduce rituals related to summoning, animation, necromancy, divination where you might have great benefits, but also side effects if you fail. These spell areas is more powerful in 5th edition, so you could convert some but then add failure conditions.
 

Jacob Lewis

Ye Olde GM
I had thought on this for a time. My initial idea is to remove the encounter and daily use limitations, and require the characters to spend healing surges instead. Ideally, it should be a simple formula: 1 for encounter powers, and 2 or 3 for daily powers. Short rests will allow some recovery of surges. Obviously, playtesting is a must to get the right numbers, but it should be feasible.

This puts players in control without being subjected to random bad rolls out of their hands. But makes them volunteer their own risks. Should they burn their last surge for a powerful strike, or save their energy to recover some of their health before presing on? It is much more interesting when you look at your character sheet and not know how many uses you have left of your abilities.

More dangerous? Allow characters to spend more surges than they have available. For each surge spent beyond their limit, they take damage, or suffer a condition. Or both. Again, playtesting will help keep things in balance. But ideally, characters will get roughly the same number of uses of powers without any real danger, but now have the option of taking risks for additional uses.
 

Remove ads

Top