Star Wars What I Would Have Done

Hussar · Feb 14, 2019

Umm, how do we know that it takes lots of training to force move something? Because it took Luke a couple of weeks of training to do it? Really? A sample size of one determines how things work?

Wouldn't it be better just to accept and move on? Why would I assume that just because it took Luke a week or two of training to lift rocks that he never could do it before or that no one ever could come by it naturally? Seems a bit of a stretch.

Zardnaar · Feb 14, 2019

Shasarak said:
To be honest I am not sure if that is because Rey is a Mary Sue or if Kylo is an Anti-Stu.

That to. As I said I would have dumped the post Endor Legends stuff and had a female protagonist myself. I would have made her weaker though or made her a Jedi Knight or another force tradition.

The other tweak would be if Kylo was written as is his mentor would be kept around to episode IX.

Rey had a good intro in the Star Destroyer wreckage and with her staff. Kylo had a good one as well. The duel at the end was also really good IMO.

Jester David · Feb 14, 2019

Hussar said:
Umm, how do we know that it takes lots of training to force move something? Because it took Luke a couple of weeks of training to do it? Really? A sample size of one determines how things work?

Wouldn't it be better just to accept and move on? Why would I assume that just because it took Luke a week or two of training to lift rocks that he never could do it before or that no one ever could come by it naturally? Seems a bit of a stretch.

Luke was moving lightsabers after getting ONE lesson on using the Force, and that was related to blocking blaster shots.

Zardnaar · Feb 14, 2019

Jester David said:
Luke was moving lightsabers after getting ONE lesson on using the Force, and that was related to blocking blaster shots.

He was bad at it and got some training at least. He got messed up by a company and lost a hand and fight to Vader. Big difference with Rey who has been booked as untrained and unbeatable. There was also a 3 year gap in universe between ANH and ESB. Compare Luke's move object on Dagobah with Rey's moving the folders at the end of TLJ.

Big difference in presentation.

Jester David · Feb 14, 2019

Zardnaar said:
He was bad at it and got some training at least. He got messed up by a company and lost a hand and fight to Vader. Big difference with Rey who has been booked as untrained and unbeatable.

Luke’s training in fighting was shooting large rodents on his farm and lifting rocks in a swamp.
Rey’s training in fighting was twelve years of constantly defending herself and her claim from scavengers and scoundrels.

And she was far from unbeatable. She was owned by Snoak. And couldn’t pull a lightsaber away from Kylo Ren. Whether or not she could take Ren in a fair fight, one where his organs weren’t half on the outside after a bowcaster shot remains to be seen.

But, no, your problems with the film aren’t Rey. Nope. They’re all about the writing and pacing. Despite how you continually and slam on Rey.

dude, this isn’t even the first time I have pointed out that Rey can fight. That we see her fight with a staff before we even know she’s a Force user.
We have literally had this exact conversation before. Point for point.

Zardnaar · Feb 14, 2019

Jester David said:
Luke’s training in fighting was shooting large rodents on his farm and lifting rocks in a swamp.
Rey’s training in fighting was twelve years of constantly defending herself and her claim from scavengers and scoundrels.

And she was far from unbeatable. She was owned by Snoak. And couldn’t pull a lightsaber away from Kylo Ren. Whether or not she could take Ren in a fair fight, one where his organs weren’t half on the outside after a bowcaster shot remains to be seen.

But, no, your problems with the film aren’t Rey. Nope. They’re all about the writing and pacing. Despite how you continually and slam on Rey.
dude, this isn’t even the first time I have pointed out that Rey can fight. That we see her fight with a staff before we even know she’s a Force user.
We have literally had this exact conversation before. Point for point.

Rey's use of the staff doesn't really require an explaination for the reasons you listed.

Being able to use mind trick and Jed Master levels of rocks either untrained or with minimal training is a bit off compared to forebpower use in I to VI is the main point.

Jester David · Feb 14, 2019

Zardnaar said:
Rey's use of the staff doesn't really require an explaination for the reasons you listed.

Being able to use mind trick and Jed Master levels of rocks either untrained or with minimal training is a bit off compared to forebpower use in I to VI is the main point.

Isn’t the simpler explanation that Luke was a crap student? Yoda says as much. He’s powerful but unfocused.
And while there was years between movies, there’s no implication that Luke spent any time training. And we never see Luke learn or be trained in the mind trick.
Even as a kid, when watching Return of the Jed, I felt Luke becoming a Jedi happened pretty fast and he’d barely spent any time actually training. But, apparently, learning to use the force just takes a couple weeks in a swamp.

Plus, if we’re going to complain about powerful force users without training, shouldn’t we bring up Asaj Ventress. Or Savage Opress?

Also, Rebels is shown that the force manifests in different ways for different people. Anakin and Luke were clearly better at seeing into the future and using that to pilot. Rey is better at lifting rocks.

Shasarak · Feb 15, 2019

Jester David said:
dude, this isn’t even the first time I have pointed out that Rey can fight. That we see her fight with a staff before we even know she’s a Force user.

Of course she can fight, she can do everything!

Jester David · Feb 15, 2019

Shasarak said:
Of course she can fight, she can do everything!

Of course. She’s a larger than life mythic hero. They can always do everything.

Zardnaar · Feb 15, 2019

Jester David said:
Isn’t the simpler explanation that Luke was a crap student? Yoda says as much. He’s powerful but unfocused.
And while there was years between movies, there’s no implication that Luke spent any time training. And we never see Luke learn or be trained in the mind trick.
Even as a kid, when watching Return of the Jed, I felt Luke becoming a Jedi happened pretty fast and he’d barely spent any time actually training. But, apparently, learning to use the force just takes a couple weeks in a swamp.

Plus, if we’re going to complain about powerful force users without training, shouldn’t we bring up Asaj Ventress. Or Savage Opress?

Also, Rebels is shown that the force manifests in different ways for different people. Anakin and Luke were clearly better at seeing into the future and using that to pilot. Rey is better at lifting rocks.

Savage was trained by the night sisters at male zabrak school and came from a dark side culture. His abilities were enganced by Mother Talzim and the he was apprentice to Mail who was a Sith Lord.

Rey was a good pilot but without any explaination. Sure things are rushed but it was established Luke was a pilot before he joined the rebellion.

Finn used a lightsaber as well but he used it like a club. Rey is good at everything with no explanation. I a super hero movie sure but in most cases in canon you have to do training for force powers at least if you are any good. Untrained premonitions, minor telekinesis maybe, dreams etc sure. Using Jedi and Sith powers and a lightsaber erm derp. Luke was terrible with s lightsaber I. ANH although Obi guided him through it. Then he got more training and got the trained by Yoda t shirt.

Sure they can declear legends non canon as well but same thing going back to the Thrawn Trilogy. Or the KoToR games etc. Canon and legends are the same here.

Jaina a Jedi Knight trained since birth still got trained to defeat her brother a Sith Lord. It's just the expectations of the genre IMHO.

Star Wars What I Would Have Done

Hussar

Legend

Zardnaar

Legend

Jester David

Hero

Zardnaar

Legend

Jester David

Hero

Zardnaar

Legend

Jester David

Hero

Shasarak

Banned

Jester David

Hero

Zardnaar

Legend

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