Star Wars What I Would Have Done

Istbor said:

You're wrong. I am a hardcore Star Wars fan, and the movies have all gone down pretty well.

I think the problem we are seeing, is fans who take themselves or their fandom a tad too seriously. The need to step back and realize there are new generations of characters and schools of thought emerging.

I loved that they killed Snoke. That was one of my favorite parts of the movie. And not just because of that awesome fight directly after.

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That is fine but financials don't lie. Revenue is down, Solo lost money, toy sales are down.

So somethings gon wrong and TLJ/Solo tend to get the flak for it. TFA and Rogue One largely avoid it and Rebels seems popular so except for the most hard core it doesn't even seem to be Disney vs Non Disney Star War's just mostly 1 movie.

I have a lot of the old EU stuff (except toys). By that comics, books, RPGs, games. New stuff not a sausage although I have seen the movies. Mostly its not because I am boycotting Star Wars its just I don't want to do it all over again (1993-2012 or so).

Its not like the Aftermath Trilogy or the new EA games are actually better than the old Star Wars stuff. Hell I play a mod for a 2005 game Empire at War called Thrawns Revenge.

Just overall I don't think the franchise is in a good spot.

Zardnaar said:

That is fine but financials don't lie. Revenue is down, Solo lost money, toy sales are down.

So somethings gon wrong and TLJ/Solo tend to get the flak for it. TFA and Rogue One largely avoid it and Rebels seems popular so except for the most hard core it doesn't even seem to be Disney vs Non Disney Star War's just mostly 1 movie.

I have a lot of the old EU stuff (except toys). By that comics, books, RPGs, games. New stuff not a sausage although I have seen the movies. Mostly its not because I am boycotting Star Wars its just I don't want to do it all over again (1993-2012 or so).

Its not like the Aftermath Trilogy or the new EA games are actually better than the old Star Wars stuff. Hell I play a mod for a 2005 game Empire at War called Thrawns Revenge.

Just overall I don't think the franchise is in a good spot.

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Surely you can see how overwhelmingly informed by your own preferences your analysis of the situation is, right?

Solo lost money because of over-saturation, because it's a story few were asking for (even in he context of standalone stories about known characters. People would have been more interested in a Lando lead movie, or another new character like R1), because there was baffling little hype for it, and because of rushed release timing (which Disney copped to). Only die-hard Johnson/Kennedy/TLJ haters are out there blaming TLJ for Solo's performance in any significant numbers. And they're still the minority of the fandom.

All that said, here is what (little) I would have done differently. Well, ignoring the ideas I had that would have done less well showing that Kennedy is better for her job than I'd have been.

1. LTJ would have further developed the relationship between Rey and Fin. I love Rose, and I'd definately keep her in the film, but Rey and Fin were perfect, and I'd have kept moving with that chemistry.

2. The old man in TFA would have been a known character.

3. No "another death star". I'd have had them have to blow up a new droid facility, or something like that. And I'd have given more time to the space battle to get it done.

4. I'd have kept in the deleted scene where Phasma kills her own troops in order to keep the fact that she sold out Starkiller Base from spreading.

5. Give Rey a lightsaber pike.

6. More diversity.

7. No "everyone dies" in Rogue 1. Also no "I'm an assassin for the rebels and have been since I was a child" crap. This is Star Wars. If you want "there are no good guys", go somewhere else.

doctorbadwolf said:

Surely you can see how overwhelmingly informed by your own preferences your analysis of the situation is, right?

Solo lost money because of over-saturation, because it's a story few were asking for (even in he context of standalone stories about known characters. People would have been more interested in a Lando lead movie, or another new character like R1), because there was baffling little hype for it, and because of rushed release timing (which Disney copped to). Only die-hard Johnson/Kennedy/TLJ haters are out there blaming TLJ for Solo's performance in any significant numbers. And they're still the minority of the fandom.

All that said, here is what (little) I would have done differently. Well, ignoring the ideas I had that would have done less well showing that Kennedy is better for her job than I'd have been.

1. LTJ would have further developed the relationship between Rey and Fin. I love Rose, and I'd definately keep her in the film, but Rey and Fin were perfect, and I'd have kept moving with that chemistry.

2. The old man in TFA would have been a known character.

3. No "another death star". I'd have had them have to blow up a new droid facility, or something like that. And I'd have given more time to the space battle to get it done.

4. I'd have kept in the deleted scene where Phasma kills her own troops in order to keep the fact that she sold out Starkiller Base from spreading.

5. Give Rey a lightsaber pike.

6. More diversity.

7. No "everyone dies" in Rogue 1. Also no "I'm an assassin for the rebels and have been since I was a child" crap. This is Star Wars. If you want "there are no good guys", go somewhere else.

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I like a lot of this, but I dislike Rogue 1, becoming something other than a gritty, the world is Grey, war story. That was a departure from the usual Star Wars camp that I really enjoyed, and I felt, helps the movie stand up well.

Istbor said:

I like a lot of this, but I dislike Rogue 1, becoming something other than a gritty, the world is Grey, war story. That was a departure from the usual Star Wars camp that I really enjoyed, and I felt, helps the movie stand up well.

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I'll make no argument about whether it was a good movie.

IMVSO, Rogue One isn't Star Wars. The Rebel Alliance does not employ assassins or child soldiers. Period.

Istbor said:

You're wrong. I am a hardcore Star Wars fan, and the movies have all gone down pretty well.

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Well I'm a hardcore SW fan as well. And I think the movies have gone downhill.
ANH/ESB/RotJ > Episodes I-III > TFA/TLJ/Solo
R1 is the outlier in this pattern as I'd put it about 1/2way between the RotJ & Episode I.
And given the poor foundation Episode IX is built on I'm almost afraid to watch it.....

doctorbadwolf said:

I'll make no argument about whether it was a good movie.

IMVSO, Rogue One isn't Star Wars. The Rebel Alliance does not employ assassins or child soldiers. Period.

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I couldn't disagree more. And we can end with that.

doctorbadwolf said:

I'll make no argument about whether it was a good movie.

IMVSO, Rogue One isn't Star Wars. The Rebel Alliance does not employ assassins or child soldiers. Period.

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Luke was basically an assassin. Palpatine while evil was basically a political assassination. A million people on the Death Star died, they would have families and even if they did not agree with everything the Empire was doing well Luke just killed their family.

Also in both the old legends material and new canon the Rebels did resort to morally dubious things for the "greater good". Watch The Clone Wars cartoon.

In the old legends material the New Republic basically fails again while the Empire reforms into a more or less benign military (NJO) then monarchy reign with Imperial Knights as a light side force tradition. Generally on old Legends message boards people end up preferring the Empire over the New Republic. Once the Sith influence is gone and a generation or so passes.

Its also why Rogue One is probably so good it gets away from the Skywalker family drama (we had 25 years of the old EU for that as well), gets away from a rehash of ANH and recylced 90's metaplot that infested TFA. I enjoyed TFA but not only is ot low on originality compared with ANH its basically recycles the old here is a new Darksider with bigger and better super weapons bwa ha ha. Its essentially the plot line of a huge amount of EU stories circa 1991 (Dark Empire) through to 1998 or so.

A question for the fans of TLJ or the new triliogy. Do you really want to go to episode IX and see Rey just steam roll everyone again and if so mind me asking whats the point? Jynn Erso had a better backstory, arguably more character development, suffered a bit with losing her dad and then made the ultimate sacrifice. She is a great character IMHO and they had a diverse and interesting cast. That is how you do it regardless of anything else IMHO at the end of the day you need to care about the characters in Star Wars. Hux and Kylo are arguably the most interesting ones left.

If Phasma killing her own troops was a deleted scene they should have kept it. That would have made her a great villain rather than the clown she came across as.

I can’t imagine disagreeing with a post more than I disagree with that post, Zardnaar.

I’m just gonna now out. We’ve all had this argument before.

doctorbadwolf said:

3. No "another death star". I'd have had them have to blow up a new droid facility, or something like that.

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Establish that Imperial Star Destroyers are still the biggest most powerful ships around. The new big threat is a shipyard (which is not spherical) for an updated Super Star Destroyer. There is a keel laid, and lots of (plunderable?) ship components in and around the dock when the Heroes arrive.

6. More diversity.

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Diversity for the sake of being diverse shows more 'tripping over own shoelaces' than 'creating better stories' or 'generating higher ticket sales'. Maybe Disney needs to find somebody who can write a compelling story first and then bring in a wide spectrum of actors / actresses to play the parts.
In contrast, the Jedi Council in Phantom Menace was diverse without saying anything about it. Mace Windu was the greatest Jedi combat master, his physical characteristics did not matter to that. The Council was all different aliens, the 'baseline unit' of diversity that would be recognizable in-universe. And it worked.

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