What if Focuses like Wands, Staves, Holy Symbols, etc were statted like weapons?

Kobold Avenger · Feb 11, 2019

So if focuses like wands got stats on a weapons table with something like:
Frost Wand: Light, Ranged, Focus, 1d8 cold, range 30/90
Fire Staff: 2-handed, Ranged, Focus, 1d10 fire, range 50/150

Would you feel that all combat cantrips should get scrapped?

Or what if focuses didn't have a specific damage type, but combat cantrips were modifiers to focuses that applied a damage type and a rider effect?

Should damage scaling get scrapped in favour of multiple attacks for magical weapon attacks for certain classes (Wizard, Sorcerer, Warlock, etc)?

IchneumonWasp · Feb 11, 2019

I think you’d have diffiiculty balancing some classes, as some get more cantrips than others. How are you going to compensate the sorcerer, for example. That class gets more cantrips than a wizard, but now they only need an item and can cast such a cantrip?

Having said that balance concern, I like it a lot, conceptually and flavorwise. I’d have them scale like cantrips damage wise.

If you don’t want to have issues with class balance, you can just keep cantrips as class abilities and have it such that wands can be used by any caster.

Lord Twig · Feb 11, 2019

I think they would be fine as magic item, maybe requiring attunement?

There is already the wand of the war mage which gives +1 to spell attack rolls and allows the caster to ignore cover.

Tales and Chronicles · Feb 11, 2019

I'd love it. Give proficiency to those to the casting classes, and give those classes a special extra attack that work with ''implements''.

Arcane Tricksters can ''sneak attack'' with wands and rods.
Eldritch Knight can use their extra attack to mix implements and weapon attacks.

As a side not, I'd like to say that I really preferred the 4e Mage who specialized with a special focus instead of mage schools.

Umbran · Feb 11, 2019

It might be better of the form, "+1 damage to spells that do cold damage" or the like, but in general, I see no issue with the general concept.

MechaTarrasque · Feb 11, 2019

IchneumonWasp said:
I think you’d have diffiiculty balancing some classes, as some get more cantrips than others. How are you going to compensate the sorcerer, for example. That class gets more cantrips than a wizard, but now they only need an item and can cast such a cantrip?

QUOTE]

It seems like it would lead to something like resonance from PF2's playtest, where classes get a different capacity for magic items. That wasn't very popular with PF2.

Satyrn · Feb 11, 2019

Kobold Avenger said:
So if focuses like wands got stats on a weapons table with something like:
Frost Wand: Light, Ranged, Focus, 1d8 cold, range 30/90
Fire Staff: 2-handed, Ranged, Focus, 1d10 fire, range 50/150

Would you feel that all combat cantrips should get scrapped?

Or what if focuses didn't have a specific damage type, but combat cantrips were modifiers to focuses that applied a damage type and a rider effect?

Should damage scaling get scrapped in favour of multiple attacks for magical weapon attacks for certain classes (Wizard, Sorcerer, Warlock, etc)?

I like the idea of wizard-weapons. But I wouldn't scale damage, and I wouldn't hand out Extra Attack features to the wizard, etc.

I'd like to see spellcasters "charge" up the weapon by casting a spell into it. f have to write up new spells, but the effects could be varied and you could encourage your players to do the work after creating a couple examples.

Like, a first level spell that splits the weapon's attack into 3 beams that target three separate targets for 1 minute (concentration). Or even a boring 3rd level spell that lets the caster attack twice (just like Extra Attack) for 24 hours (no concentration). And those 2 spells could even stack, letting the player attack 3 separate targets twice each round.

You could eliminate all the attack cantrips and even the attack spells! It'd be a whole new system of killing with magic!

I think I got sidetracked in my thinking.

Satyrn · Feb 11, 2019

So, my other, more straightforward thought was this:

I like the idea of wizard-weapons. But I wouldn't scale damage, and I wouldn't hand out Extra Attack features to the wizard, etc.

I'd just make 7-charge wands of burning hands, orbs of vampiric touch and implements with other low level spells more readily available (about the same as plate armor). With that done, I'd have no qualms with simply eliminating all the attack cantrips.

Krachek · Feb 11, 2019

Kobold Avenger said:
So if focuses like wands got stats on a weapons table with something like:
Frost Wand: Light, Ranged, Focus, 1d8 cold, range 30/90
Fire Staff: 2-handed, Ranged, Focus, 1d10 fire, range 50/150

Would you feel that all combat cantrips should get scrapped?

Or what if focuses didn't have a specific damage type, but combat cantrips were modifiers to focuses that applied a damage type and a rider effect?

Should damage scaling get scrapped in favour of multiple attacks for magical weapon attacks for certain classes (Wizard, Sorcerer, Warlock, etc)?

Do we add spellcasting abiltiy modifier to damage roll?
It is an attack so I guess yes.

Xeviat · Feb 11, 2019

I agree you'd have to take some time to alter the cantrips. One of the advantages casters have in the at-will department is more versatility. Fire Bolt may be a wizard's go to because it's higher damage, but a ray of frost can come in handy when you need to slow someone or if there's something weak to cold damage.

What if Focuses like Wands, Staves, Holy Symbols, etc were statted like weapons?

Kobold Avenger

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