Need help with Health recovery math

Hey guys,

while reading the thread about Arcana of the Ancients, it gave me the urge to go back and read the Numenera corebook to find and steal some mechanics to implement in my 5e games.

Numenera use ''short rest'' called recoveries that give back some fighting power to the PC, but take longer and longer the more time you use them in a day. So in my game, ''short rest recoveries'' would take
1st: 10 minutes
2nd: 30 minutes
3rd: 1 hour
4th: 8 hours

Now, in my games I dont want to use the HD pool to spend on short rest, I'd prefer to have the PCs recover a set amount of health at each ''short rest recovery'' (no full healing at 8 hours rest though).
I was thinking something like (1dX, where X is the class HD, + Con) * Level, but I cant do math, so it may be to much.

Could somebody help me figure out a good way to calculate an adequate amount of recovered HP per ''recoveries''?

vincegetorix said:

Hey guys,

while reading the thread about Arcana of the Ancients, it gave me the urge to go back and read the Numenera corebook to find and steal some mechanics to implement in my 5e games.

Numenera use ''short rest'' called recoveries that give back some fighting power to the PC, but take longer and longer the more time you use them in a day. So in my game, ''short rest recoveries'' would take
1st: 10 minutes
2nd: 30 minutes
3rd: 1 hour
4th: 8 hours

Now, in my games I dont want to use the HD pool to spend on short rest, I'd prefer to have the PCs recover a set amount of health at each ''short rest recovery'' (no full healing at 8 hours rest though).
I was thinking something like (1dX, where X is the class HD, + Con) * Level, but I cant do math, so it may be to much.

Could somebody help me figure out a good way to calculate an adequate amount of recovered HP per ''recoveries''?

Click to expand...

Like your concept, going to talk through how I'd do it.

(1dHD + Con)*lvl is as if you spent your full HD every single time. It's too much.

Hmm, the schedule you have laid out seems to support 3 short rests per day - at least that number can be taking in less time then the 2 hours worth of short rests as suggested in a "standard" D&D day. This actually seems a bit of a boost for the short-rest recovery classes like Warlock. I'm going to assume this is on purpose and stay with 3 per day, but the concepts will remain the same if you reduce to 2, just the numbers need to be adjusted.

The easy way would be to say "you get about 1/3 of your HD back each time". But that ignores that HDs are currently only spent when you need them. With the traditional you might not be hurt at the first short rest, and you might need all of them at the second - that flexibility reduces unused. With a set amount, there is going to be some lost so we need to increase some. Say 1/2 of your HD instead of 1/3, but we can fudge a little for easy math.

(1dHD+Con) * lvl / 2 is do-able, but a bit mathy. (lvl/2 round up)dHD + CON each time is easy, but favors lower CON characters.

Super easy mode: If we make an assumption that characters with higher HD usually invest in higher CON, then a estimate would be just to reduce each HD by two die sizes (min d4) and roll LVL of them each short rest. So a Wizard 6 with 12 CON goes from (d6+1)*3 to 6d4 (.5 different), while a Barb 6 with 16 CON (d12+3)*3 to 6d8 (on the money). It's an estimation, but so's the target we're aiming at and it makes the rolling easy. Do this if your player would rather have lots of dice instead of math and precision.

One thing that this system is missing is you will be taking away one of the very few multi-day attrition mechanics in base 5e. HD recovered per day (in excess of 1/2) and levels of exhaustion (in excess of 1) are there only inherent long term attrition in the game. (Consumable gear is another, but that's not inherent.)

Here: on a short rest you recover hp equal to NHD + N*CON.

N = your proficiency modifier
HD = your class’ hit die (d10, d8, etc)
CON = your constitution modifier (which I hope is a positive value).

Thus a 5th level fighter with 17 Constitution would recover on average 25 HP per rest out of their maximum of 49.

Same fighter at level 20 would recover 51 out of their max of 175.

“But that’s too much.”

That fighter has 17 CON. They recover quickly. However, if it remains too much for your table, you can always just scale it back by removing the CON altogether.

Bawylie said:

Here: on a short rest you recover hp equal to NHD + N*CON.

N = your proficiency modifier
HD = your class’ hit die (d10, d8, etc)
CON = your constitution modifier (which I hope is a positive value).

Thus a 5th level fighter with 17 Constitution would recover on average 25 HP per rest out of their maximum of 49.

Same fighter at level 20 would recover 51 out of their max of 175.

“But that’s too much.”

That fighter has 17 CON. They recover quickly. However, if it remains too much for your table, you can always just scale it back by removing the CON altogether.

Click to expand...

I like how you used the proficiency bonus, even though the "but that's too much" comment becomes real appropriate at first level.

Satyrn said:

I like how you used the proficiency bonus, even though the "but that's too much" comment becomes real appropriate at first level.

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I mean, sure. But what’s the party composition? How much combat does this group get into? Is there a healer or ready source of potions? Does the DM roll damage or use static values?

Guide’s a guide. Adjust any number of the thousand variables you have, to taste.

Edit to add: you spend about 5 minutes at level one and 7 at level two, anyway. IMO a proper use-case is between levels 3-10. Maybe 5-10.

Could something like:
Prof+Con * HD be too much? What about half-Prof?

vincegetorix said:

Could somebody help me figure out a good way to calculate an adequate amount of recovered HP per ''recoveries''?

Click to expand...

So how long do they need to rest to fully recover all their HP?
If I understand you correctly, each recovery period is supposed to grant the same number of HP, simply take longer?
Is the idea that with 4 recoveries PCs could recover their maximum HP in a day?

vincegetorix said:

Hey guys,

while reading the thread about Arcana of the Ancients, it gave me the urge to go back and read the Numenera corebook to find and steal some mechanics to implement in my 5e games.

Numenera use ''short rest'' called recoveries that give back some fighting power to the PC, but take longer and longer the more time you use them in a day. So in my game, ''short rest recoveries'' would take
1st: 10 minutes
2nd: 30 minutes
3rd: 1 hour
4th: 8 hours

Now, in my games I dont want to use the HD pool to spend on short rest, I'd prefer to have the PCs recover a set amount of health at each ''short rest recovery'' (no full healing at 8 hours rest though).
I was thinking something like (1dX, where X is the class HD, + Con) * Level, but I cant do math, so it may be to much.

Could somebody help me figure out a good way to calculate an adequate amount of recovered HP per ''recoveries''?

Click to expand...

Somehow, I hate to be the one to do this, but...

Adequate for what? You have proposed changing the rest mechanic, but you didn't say what you are trying to accomplish. How do you want the game to play differently? Or do you just really, really want to use that mechanic, but want the game to play as close to the same as possible? (Which sounds a little weird when stated that way, but it does seem to be the spirit in which people are answering your question so far.)

Harzel said:

Somehow, I hate to be the one to do this, but...

Adequate for what? You have proposed changing the rest mechanic, but you didn't say what you are trying to accomplish. How do you want the game to play differently? Or do you just really, really want to use that mechanic, but want the game to play as close to the same as possible? (Which sounds a little weird when stated that way, but it does seem to be the spirit in which people are answering your question so far.)

Click to expand...

Because short rest are not frequently used in my group. My players tend to push to the edge of collapsing then are more or less forced to take a long rest, even if I remind them that they could have gone further if they paced themselves a little better. And they are not really optimal players: they die a lot because they lack any basic strategy and dont really know or care to heal themselves when appropriate. They lost a whole bunch of PC because they entered combat without really thinking while at 10% max HP. They are what you'd call casual players, its still just a game and dont really care to lose a character (or three), but its more job for me to find novel ways to insert their PC number X in the game.

Anyway, its mostly the idea to give short rest based classes a little more use (at my table), while giving my players the ability to heal themselves without taking a full hour (for the 2 first recovery at least).

dnd4vr said:

So how long do they need to rest to fully recover all their HP?
If I understand you correctly, each recovery period is supposed to grant the same number of HP, simply take longer?
Is the idea that with 4 recoveries PCs could recover their maximum HP in a day?

Click to expand...

When you put it that way....well yes.

I guess that makes the answer more evident what if each recovery gave you 25% of your max HP, like in 4e?