Why Villainous Rants?

Yesterday I was discussing with one of my players some ideas I had to encourage 'dramatic moments' in the game. Things like the heroes and the villains exchanging insults or threats before a fight; or the group watching in awe for a moment as the dragon swoops overhead, trying to intimidate them; or a hero making a dramatic speech about how the villain's villainy is at its end.

I've only ever had one dramatic villain's speech before a big climactic showdown, and do you know how I did it? Power Word Stun.

Yep, the villainess, just for the sake of her own ego, showed up and wasted a power word stun on the party so she could insult them for a few rounds. the players were amused by it, and admitted that, if they'd had their way, they would've just attacked her the moment they saw her.

So anyway, yesterday, I was getting a little angry that my friend didn't appreciate dramatic villain speeches, or dramatic hero speeches, for that matter. I was trying to say how important they are to fantasy and heroic storytelling, but he replied that no, they aren't. We had just finished watching (don't worry, I won't spoiler anything) Van Hellsing, and in that movie, one of the villains taunted a hero long enough for that hero to come up with a way to kill the villain.

My friend swears by the thought that any scene that is dramatic with a villainous speech would be more dramatic without that speech. I countered that such moments of pause are important for the pacing of dramatic climaxes. They let you know, "Oh *bleep*, the *bleep* is about to hit the fan. Let's watch!" He says that villains ought to just win, then taunt the heroes as they kill them. Or better yet, win, kill the heroes, then gloat over their corpses.

As you may guess, my friend is fond of stories where the hero loses. He is, all in all, a depressing individual.

But I do wonder, why do we want villainous speeches, and why won't many players let us have them? I mean, we all see them in movies. The players ought to know that I, as a GM, am not going to use the speech as a way to hurt them.

In movies, TV shows, books, and stories, that last little bit of drama before the big showdown is there to remind the hero what he's fighting for, and to make the audience remember why they want to see the villain go down. In a D&D game, often you only get one chance for a villain to express himself before he goes down in combat, and so for him to make his presence known, he needs to do it before the fight. It makes the villain something more than just a monster to kill.

If a dragon flew overhead and tried to be an impressive presence for the PCs to fear, he'd pay for it by having the party blast him with arrows and spells. The GM understands that the Dragon was just trying to look cool, but the party just sees an opening.

If the villainess catches the heroes in her sanctum and wants to thank them for falling into her trap and inadvertently helping her fulfill her evil plan, she'll get two words out of her mouth before she's having to make Fort saves and dodge sneak attacks. I as the game master want my character to have a chance to roleplay, but the party just thinks 'villain' and turns off all roleplaying circuits in their brains.

Am I wrong to want dramatic villain speeches and moments of roleplaying before the big fight? Are the players wrong to just want to kill things and not enjoy the drama of exchanging words with the villain? All narrative aside, on a purely logical level, is it stupid for a villain to try to taunt?

What are your thoughts and experiences?

I think the dramaic speech is in the villian handbook, it is something that must be done, it is right after elaborate slow torture.

I agree with you RangerWickett. I think players jump to the attack for a couple reasons.

#1: "Lets get on with it." They don't want to use that few seconds of speech to think up a way to defeat the villain. They don't want to hear the master plan. They just want to thwack the guy and kill him so they don't have to worry about him again.

#2: "He's up to something." If they stand there and listen, as interested as they may be, the bad guy could be up to something, or wasting their time so that his minions get into place with the evil artifact.

The Dramatic Speech

The speech you talk about is common or used more often in a game where roleplaying dominates the game versus roll playing. Your poor friend doesn't get it. There's a possibility that he's more interested in action than words, so words are wasted on him. In 3E, the action is centered more on tactical roleplaying (read: combat) than character interaction. 3E (and others) D&D is compatible with character interaction and roleplaying, but your group has to buy into a bit and look for storyline develpoment as well as a kick-butt experience in die-rolling combat.

Many movies we see have the speeches as they are not written with hack'n'slash adventurers in mind. A possible way to wean them into it would be to have an ally NPC bard use his bard abilities in the form of this cool speech, enheartening (and thus giving them BONUSES) while talking. As an alternative, an evil or adversary NPC bard could affect them in the opposite way. At any rate, perhaps the person (or group) can see the effect of these speeches...

I've only been successful with such speaches twice (even though I'd love to use them more)

1) a lich in a floating chair hovering about 50 feet above the party. after the speach the party cast fly on the paladin who flew up and beat the lich down with her holy great maul

2) an evil sorcerer trancending to godhood (and protected by the transformation process). the party killed his followers then shreaded him with a magical artifact (which they figured out how to use just in the nick of time).

I think about this sort of thing while watching movies or reading all of the time.

Players (and I guess I do this myself, when I play) are always looking for advantage, and, I suppose, who can blame them? I mean, the villian is trying to KILL them, right?

So, they never let the disarmed guy recover his weapon, never pause to hear what the Villian has to say, would never tolerate or allow a million things that writers and directors get to do to make that final combat memorable and exciting.

I just saw Troy last night, and when Achillies rode up to the walls to fight Hector mano-a-mano, all i could think is, Never happen in a game. If a PC has 10,000 archers at his disposal, he is going to use them, and his DM is just going to have to find his or her dramtic moments someplace else.

Oh, it's not that my players don't roleplay. When they're with allies, or just random folk, they love being in character, causing trouble, solving trouble, getting to know folks, cracking jokes in character, and thinking up ingenious ways to thwart villainous schemes. But, and it's the oddest thing, the moment they get within thwacking distance of the villains, all that turns off, and they just want to kill. I really don't understand it.

I think next time I ought to have the villain start talking while out of sight, around a corner or something. Then, he'll finish up just as he comes into view.

I really think I ought to institute some sort of Feng Shui-esque 'cool points,' or something. Like, if you do a good job taunting the villain, you get to make any roll a 20 during the course of the fight.

Its the nature of players, I think. Every group I've seen or heard of, seems to play like that when comes down the showdown and the villains speeches.

I don't remember what it was, but I remember seeing a book recently that had some ability that let you give uninterupted gloating speeches.

OTOH, anyone remember "The Gamers"?

Easily dispensable minions. Comfortable skull-shaped thrones. And villainous rants. Really, these are the only three perqs in the Villain compensation package. I say treasure them for everything they're worth.