Why Villainous Rants?
RangerWickett
Legend
*grin*
I never have had a skull-shaped throne. But I did have a skull-shaped castle. The party loved that one.
I never have had a skull-shaped throne. But I did have a skull-shaped castle. The party loved that one.
Chronosome
First Post
You know, you're on to something with the "I want to roleplay, too" angle. Maybe if you just talked to your player from that angle, he'd get it a little more. You pause your NPCs all the time for the PCs' sake, don't ya? Tell him it's a two-way street, and you'll all have a little more fun if everyone settled into their roles a bit more. 
Last edited:
orchid blossom
Explorer
I believe our group listened to a villian's speech once. The reason was that we were waiting for his prepped spells to go down.
I think that's one of the reasons players just want to get with the fighting. If they know they're about to find the villian and cast their buff spells, they don't want to waste precious time listening to the villian. By the time he finishes describing how you've just completed his master plan for him, everything you had ready is gone. In the meantime, who knows what his minions could be doing?
I think that's one of the reasons players just want to get with the fighting. If they know they're about to find the villian and cast their buff spells, they don't want to waste precious time listening to the villian. By the time he finishes describing how you've just completed his master plan for him, everything you had ready is gone. In the meantime, who knows what his minions could be doing?
BSF
Explorer
Generally, the players are looking for that advantage. The last big villian taunt I got off was when the villain was in a Forbiddance zone, there were minions to get in the way, and the party was almost all out of evocations.
Prior to that, I had an adversarial NPC that was trying to talk to the party. He was part of a group that had been put together as mirrors of the PC's. I thought it would be nifty to have a bit of banter. Three words were out of my mouth and the PC barbarian wanted to attack. He was already moving his mini across the map because he somehow thought he just got to act. I looked at the group and asked if that was really what he was doing. He was reaching for his D20 to see if he hit when he said yes. He rolled, I waited for the die to stop and _then_ said, "OK, let's roll initiative. Can somebody move Ardel back where he was?"
It was a blast when the NPC Mind Flayer won initiative, mind blasted the group, and the two PC's with the highest Will saves blew them. Amazingly enough, the Barbarian saved on that one, but not on the Charm that followed by another one of the NPC's. The group lost that battle and the NPC's took the stuff they came to "retrieve". The PC's also lost the opportunity to get the item back for several game months because they hadn't talked to the NPC's. Actually, a few players were annoyed at the barbarian player because they wanted to know what the NPC's had to say. They were sure it would be important. It was.
So, don't roll any initiative until one side goes hostile. Then, let the consequences fall where they may. When the players later complain that there was "no way" they could have found out the vital clue, point out to them that they killed the person that would have told them.
Prior to that, I had an adversarial NPC that was trying to talk to the party. He was part of a group that had been put together as mirrors of the PC's. I thought it would be nifty to have a bit of banter. Three words were out of my mouth and the PC barbarian wanted to attack. He was already moving his mini across the map because he somehow thought he just got to act. I looked at the group and asked if that was really what he was doing. He was reaching for his D20 to see if he hit when he said yes. He rolled, I waited for the die to stop and _then_ said, "OK, let's roll initiative. Can somebody move Ardel back where he was?"
It was a blast when the NPC Mind Flayer won initiative, mind blasted the group, and the two PC's with the highest Will saves blew them. Amazingly enough, the Barbarian saved on that one, but not on the Charm that followed by another one of the NPC's. The group lost that battle and the NPC's took the stuff they came to "retrieve". The PC's also lost the opportunity to get the item back for several game months because they hadn't talked to the NPC's. Actually, a few players were annoyed at the barbarian player because they wanted to know what the NPC's had to say. They were sure it would be important. It was.
So, don't roll any initiative until one side goes hostile. Then, let the consequences fall where they may. When the players later complain that there was "no way" they could have found out the vital clue, point out to them that they killed the person that would have told them.
Okay, I was going to post an intelligent summary of my views and how I feel things should be handled, but BardStephenFox did it better.
I would still like to add that attacking without letting the villain rant isn't neccessarily bad roleplaying; often it would be quite out of character for the characters to just stand there doing nothing while the villain talks. Yes, I know, that can spoil the dramatic moment...but I like to have characters respond realistically, not in a manner that begs heckling. That doesn't mean that I don't like villains who rant; just give the characters some incentive to hear them out. From another perspective, it also becomes more logical for villains to indulge in rants if characters don't always immediately attack. As BardStephenFox pointed out, characters may be less trigger-happy with their crossbows if they realize the villain might have information they need. Failing that, there are always spells for villains to use (i.e. Wall of Force, possibly illusion spells) or situations for DMs to use (characters can't see the villain, characters are captured/helpless or pretending to be captured/helpless) that prevent the characters from attacking.
Of course, sometimes your plans can go awry. I once planned to have an evil wizard cast wall of force on the first round of an encounter, taunt the heroes from the other side of the wall, and then teleport away. (Fortunately for the characters, all the rest of his spells had been spent gaining the magic item he was taking away with him.) The party won the initiative, cast silence, used the wizard's familiar to interfere with the wizard taking the magic item... long story short, the level 4 party killed the 9th level evil wizard. I could have fudged things, but I decided the players had earned the victory and I could adapt the plot. The moral of the story, however, is have the preventative measure in place BEFORE you roll initiative...
I would still like to add that attacking without letting the villain rant isn't neccessarily bad roleplaying; often it would be quite out of character for the characters to just stand there doing nothing while the villain talks. Yes, I know, that can spoil the dramatic moment...but I like to have characters respond realistically, not in a manner that begs heckling. That doesn't mean that I don't like villains who rant; just give the characters some incentive to hear them out. From another perspective, it also becomes more logical for villains to indulge in rants if characters don't always immediately attack. As BardStephenFox pointed out, characters may be less trigger-happy with their crossbows if they realize the villain might have information they need. Failing that, there are always spells for villains to use (i.e. Wall of Force, possibly illusion spells) or situations for DMs to use (characters can't see the villain, characters are captured/helpless or pretending to be captured/helpless) that prevent the characters from attacking.
Of course, sometimes your plans can go awry. I once planned to have an evil wizard cast wall of force on the first round of an encounter, taunt the heroes from the other side of the wall, and then teleport away. (Fortunately for the characters, all the rest of his spells had been spent gaining the magic item he was taking away with him.) The party won the initiative, cast silence, used the wizard's familiar to interfere with the wizard taking the magic item... long story short, the level 4 party killed the 9th level evil wizard. I could have fudged things, but I decided the players had earned the victory and I could adapt the plot. The moral of the story, however, is have the preventative measure in place BEFORE you roll initiative...
demiurge1138
Inventor of Super-Toast
My players were all raised on Baldur's Gate and Final Fantasy, so I never have had a problem with dramatic speeches. They call them "cut scenes". But they let the villian rant and gloat, partially because they enjoy me doing my evil schtick, and because they usually use information gathered from the speech to their advantage later.
And a good villian rant has been the source of drama a few times IMC, and I think it serves that purpose beautifully. And they're so much fun.
Demiurge out.
And a good villian rant has been the source of drama a few times IMC, and I think it serves that purpose beautifully. And they're so much fun.
Demiurge out.
Most people who know me would say that I lean closer to the roll playing than role playing. But when you have to make Vilanous Speaches or other Big Dramatic Moments I think that it is definitely time to bust out some DM Narration.
Try this, next time they are about to confront the villan begin describing the scene as you normally would; the room, the frunishings, the NPC's present. Then at the point where you would normally pause and your players start asking questions/describe actions/roll init just don't stop talking. Press on quickly and forcefully and just narrate how the villan sees the PC's, spreads his arms mockingly, says "welcome to my abode" and then begin the Vilanous Speach. Don't deliver a Shakespearean monologue mind you, a little gloating followed by a few choice insults is much better. Whereupon the players will probably not be able to resist throwing a few insults back as they reach for their dice to roll init. Same thing with the Dragon overflight. Describe the dragon appearing over the hill as you normally would, then start telling them in detail about the dragon's powerfull wing muscles and tough scales, then tell them they are noticing this detail as he flys low over their heads and turns about for another pass, narrate their fear and terror as he passes by and then finally let them roll init as he turns about with a wicked grin on his face.
The trick is to make the transition quickly so that by the time your players realize that you have stoped Describing and started Narrating it is too late and the Villan is already talking. If your players have any manners at all they will know better than to interupt the DM (or even another player for that matter) when he is speaking. Of course there are a few things to remember when trying this out.
1) Player/DM trust. This is important in any situation but it is espically important here. Don't use Narration to screw the players over or they will never let you Narate again! If they have buff's up before confronting the Villan then don't let the speech count against the time the buff's are active. If the Dragon absouetly must use his breath weapon to show off don't use it on the PC's, toast the conviently located red shirt to their left.
2) Less is More. Don't use Narration that often and only when it is important. Once a session tops and probably less. The idea is to train your players so that they go "oh hey! The DM has gone into Narration mode. This must be important!".
This has worked well for me in the past, hope you can get some milage out of it too.
Try this, next time they are about to confront the villan begin describing the scene as you normally would; the room, the frunishings, the NPC's present. Then at the point where you would normally pause and your players start asking questions/describe actions/roll init just don't stop talking. Press on quickly and forcefully and just narrate how the villan sees the PC's, spreads his arms mockingly, says "welcome to my abode" and then begin the Vilanous Speach. Don't deliver a Shakespearean monologue mind you, a little gloating followed by a few choice insults is much better. Whereupon the players will probably not be able to resist throwing a few insults back as they reach for their dice to roll init. Same thing with the Dragon overflight. Describe the dragon appearing over the hill as you normally would, then start telling them in detail about the dragon's powerfull wing muscles and tough scales, then tell them they are noticing this detail as he flys low over their heads and turns about for another pass, narrate their fear and terror as he passes by and then finally let them roll init as he turns about with a wicked grin on his face.
The trick is to make the transition quickly so that by the time your players realize that you have stoped Describing and started Narrating it is too late and the Villan is already talking. If your players have any manners at all they will know better than to interupt the DM (or even another player for that matter) when he is speaking. Of course there are a few things to remember when trying this out.
1) Player/DM trust. This is important in any situation but it is espically important here. Don't use Narration to screw the players over or they will never let you Narate again! If they have buff's up before confronting the Villan then don't let the speech count against the time the buff's are active. If the Dragon absouetly must use his breath weapon to show off don't use it on the PC's, toast the conviently located red shirt to their left.
2) Less is More. Don't use Narration that often and only when it is important. Once a session tops and probably less. The idea is to train your players so that they go "oh hey! The DM has gone into Narration mode. This must be important!".
This has worked well for me in the past, hope you can get some milage out of it too.
ivocaliban
First Post
Owldragon has a good point. If the villain has information the players want or need, if he's a relative, if he's got a hostage...then they're more likely to listen than if he just wants to lambast them with insults one last time. The true villain in my game is the imprisoned god Tharizdun, so if he wants to talk to a PC it's going to be fairly hard for the players to shut him up. However, his henchman, the one doing the awakening, is a mad elven sorcerer who is also the PCs father-in-law. There have been two or three instances where these two had verbal duels, usually with the sorcerer doing the talking. So far, of course, the main reason the PC hasn't attacked is because he knows he is no match for his foe as of yet. And...the PC is still convinced that his father-in-law can be saved. He knows how dangerous he is, but he also believes he's being used.
I haven't quite yet decided if I should award him for this notion or just let the elf use this hope to his advantage...
I haven't quite yet decided if I should award him for this notion or just let the elf use this hope to his advantage...
Last edited:
Raven Crowking
First Post
Am I wrong in thinking that EnWorld Player's Journal contained an article about using social skills as part of the combat process? While this admittedly allowed for only short exchanges of quips, it was a very good idea.
