D&D 5E (no more) boring shields

How about:

When you parry with a small shield, you reduce the damage by 1d8 per expertise die spent.

When you parry with a large shield, you reduce the damage by 1d10 per expertise die spent.

I'd prefer simpler perks as well. I was toying with the idea that heavy armor (and possibly shield) grant a bonus to your Dex Save. Say +1 for most heavy armors and shield, perhaps +2 for plate armor.

But being able to Parry missile weapons with a shield is not a bad idea either...

I would like to see shields And in fact all handheld weapons Provide your main armor class. Then your armor would actually provide you no armor class but would instead give you damage reduction. Here's an example perhaps you have a spear and that spear gives you a +4 AC bonus. A large shield might give you a +5 AC bonus. A longsword might give you a +2 AC bonus. A dagger +1 Etc. So this AC bonus makes it much more realistic when looking at how weapons are used to hold people at bay.

Then of course the flipside is armor would be used for damage reduction. Perhaps a spread of 1-5 reduction point could be used Split amongst the various armors. Leather offers one damage reduction point, The heaviest plate armor could offer five points. Heavier armors might actually lower your armor class. For instance a fighter with superheavy plate might have five points of damage reduction but would suffer two points of AC loss.

This would be a pretty good system. Problem is there is no historical D&D in it. So it won't get done but perhaps in a rules module.

Rules like this seem cute in theory, but it adds another thing that everyone has to learn, and then remember at the table, and then keep track of it, or look it up in the book, or whatever.

I think +1 AC is perfectly fine.

I agree that +1 AC is somewhat weak sauce for a shield, and would like a more interesting benefit. Yet I don't think tracking shield breakage and such is the way to go (except in a possible 'gritty' add on module). I would like to see something elegant that is not quite so fiddly.

I'd like any discussion of shields to be included within a larger context of (mechanically) Two Weapon Defence and (historically) rapier-and-dagger, sword-and-cloak, sword-and-lantern, net-and-trident fighting.

The simplest way would be:
a. Shields give +1 AC (assuming proficiency)
b. there's a (stacking) TWD feat gives +1 AC when you have separate weapon in one hand and something else (a light weapon, a shield, or other object, including a torch, a lantern, or a cloak*).

* For a monk, this could include bare hands. I'd also explicitly include a net here, even though it's not a light weapon.

Only marginally more complex would be (changes in bold):
a. Small shields give +1 AC
b. Large shields give +2 AC
c. there's a (stacking) TWD feat gives +1 AC when you have separate weapon in one hand and something else (a light weapon, a small shield, or other object, including a torch, a lantern, or a cloak).

So you can have a large shield for +2 AC, or a small shield and a feat for +2 AC, or two weapons, or two weapons and the feat for +1 AC, or one weapon and non-weapon and the feat for +1 AC. That's quite a bit of granularity, while staying simple, I think.

I would not make the TWD feat (a better name would help) dependent on TWF or anything else -- anyone can take it.


EDIT: I'd also lay off on the easy shield proficiencies for clerics. Currently five of the divinities grant proficiency in all armour and shields. Too much! I'm fine for the Warbringer, but more variation/granularity here would be good.

Take two on shields. I read all your ideas and I decided to drop the original idea of bonus HP completly. Instead, shields provide simpler benefits as proposed in this thread.

The Shields

Parry - If you have fighter's Parry ability, you add this number to damage parried when you use it.
If you don't have the Parry ability but you're proficient with the shield you're using, you now can use Parry ability as if you were a fighter, but the parry dice you get from the shield is lowered by one step (from 1d4 to 1d3, from 1d12 to 1d10, etc.)
Free Hand - Bucklers are strapped onto your arm and therefore leave your hand free to hold a weapon in combat. A buckler can be strapped only onto a medium or heavy armor.
Cover - Large shields essentially provide cover. The +2 AC they grant is not cumulative with the benefits of having cover, but other benefits of cover apply (like +2 bonus to Dexterity saving throws).
Unwieldly - Carrying around a large shield anywhere outside battlefield is not a good idea. With large shield in your hand, your speed other than walk speed is zero (unless it's granted by magic, such as fly speed - then it's unaffected). Your walk speed is reduced by 5 ft. You also get disadvantage on Stealth checks.

Szatany said:

Take two on shields. I read all your ideas and I decided to drop the original idea of bonus HP completly. Instead, shields provide simpler benefits as proposed in this thread.

The Shields

Code:

Name                 Cost     Weight   AC  Parry  Abilities
Bucklers
 Metal               2 gp     4 lb.    +0  +1d4   free hand
 Adamantine laced    30 gp    5 lb.    +0  +1d6   free hand
 Obdurium laced      100 gp   5 lb.    +0  +1d8   free hand
Shields
 Wood                1 gp     5 lb.    +1  +1d3
 Reinforced wood     5 gp     7 lb.    +1  +1d4
 Metal               10 gp    10 lb.   +1  +1d6
 Adamantine laced    300 gp   15 lb.   +1  +1d8
 Obdurium laced      1000 gp  15 lb.   +1  +1d10
Large shields
 Reinforced wood     15 gp    15 lb.   +2  +1d6   cover, unwieldly
 Metal               20 gp    20 lb.   +2  +1d8   cover, unwieldly
 Adamantine laced    400 gp   30 lb.   +2  +1d10  cover, unwieldly
 Obdurium laced      1200 gp  30 lb.   +2  +1d12  cover, unwieldly

Parry - If you have fighter's Parry ability, you add this number to damage parried when you use it.
If you don't have the Parry ability but you're proficient with the shield you're using, you now can use Parry ability as if you were a fighter, but the parry dice you get from the shield is lowered by one step (from 1d4 to 1d3, from 1d12 to 1d10, etc.)
Free Hand - Bucklers are strapped onto your arm and therefore leave your hand free to hold a weapon in combat. A buckler can be strapped only onto a medium or heavy armor.
Cover - Large shields essentially provide cover. The +2 AC they grant is not cumulative with the benefits of having cover, but other benefits of cover apply (like +2 bonus to Dexterity saving throws).
Unwieldly - Carrying around a large shield anywhere outside battlefield is not a good idea. With large shield in your hand, your speed other than walk speed is zero (unless it's granted by magic, such as fly speed - then it's unaffected). Your walk speed is reduced by 5 ft. You also get disadvantage on Stealth checks.

Click to expand...

That's a common D&D misconception, but bucklers are definitely NOT strapped to your arm. You hold it with your hand, and use it mostly as brass knuckles.



"Small" round shields aren't sufficiently different from the kite-shaped "large" shields to warrant separate stats. The only shield large enough to provide much more protection is the tower shield, which is more closely described as a "portable wall".

When the whole discussion about D&DN's two-weapon fighting rules were occurring, I thought that it'dve been interesting to treat off-hand weapons and shields as basically the same item-- each gets a single damage die / parry die a la the Fighter's expertise dice, instead of the shield's bonus to AC and the off-hand weapon's regular damage die expression.

The Shield's die is 1d6 when used to block and 1d4 when used to damage (shield bash).
The Off-hand Weapon is 1d6 when used to damage and 1d4 when used to parry.

The varying die helps indicate that the shield is primarily for defense with a small offensive component, and vice versa for the off-hand weapon. And both of these dice could get bigger either via feats or Fighter Maneuvers. You could also theoretically allow the Shield to grant additional plusses to AC too if you wanted shields to be better than just straight DR.

Die refreshes at the end of the round and can get spent like the Fighter's die can. If attacked and hit, the PC can spend his Shield/Off-Hand Weapon to reduce damage. Otherwise when it becomes the PCs turn, if he attacks with his main weapon and hits... he can spend the die on either additional damage to the target OR on a second target adjacent to the first target and the PC (basically recreating the 4E Cleave exploit).

So this helps the Shield by granting DR to the PC, and it cleans up the two-weapon fighting rules by not requiring a second attack roll while also not giving the second attack all the ridiculous bonuses to damage you got traditionally (and which makes TWF balancing so darned messy). But in return... you get to have the "minion killer" ability out of it, when you attack one monster and then pop off the one next to him too (when you are facing many, many low-powered monsters.)

There's no reason not to have both worlds - have the standard shield just give a flat bonus to AC, but then also include specific shields (both mundane and magical, if desired) that grant other options to characters who use them.

That way, if a player wants an 'interesting' shield (and is willing to pay for it) he's supported, and if another player doesn't want to worry about it but just wants an AC bonus then he is supported also. And that way both can be supported at the same table.