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D&D 5E D&D "Core" Settings

Just my broken record rant, but Forgotten Realms has no business being default because it changes basic things from the core books.

If the PHB/MM describe elves and dwarves one way, and the Forgotten Realms--which describes them another way--is default, why describe them that way at all?

None of the other settings except Greyhawk describe them the same way as the PHB/MM!

You can't say in the core books, "this is default" and then only create settings that fail to follow the default, and call one of those settings the default!

I might be the only one who likes the "default" elven and dwarven subraces better than the FR take on them, but I'd hope at least some others would recognize the inconsistency in presenting the material in that manner.

/rant off
 

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Rygar

Explorer
For you, perhaps. But it all depends on to which setting those cannibalized parts now belong in the eyes of the developers. You point out that it was designed to be vague, but the reason for that is that it was designed to be the poorly defined world in which D&D and AD&D were both set before 1980-81. It was designed to replace. It is the ultimate reboot. Possession is 9/10ths of the law -- and Nerath possesses.



I can't find any reference to the Hickman pitch, but /holy crap/ the author they were courting for the Dragonlance reboot was apparently /Jim Butcher/. I don't read the Dresden Files, but I don't deny their impact on the modern fantasy fiction market. If he is to be believed (and why wouldn't he be), negotiations got pretty far before he backed out because the move didn't have Weis and Hickman's buy-in.

That is /fascinating/. Rebooting Dark Sun is one thing, but rebooting Dragonlance is another thing entirely. That really gives me hope that Wizards might be moving away from the evolving persistent world model that has caused such grief for the last 30 years.



That's funny. I have never had that problem, running Dragonlance, but I feel like super NPCs are a huge problem in the Forgotten Realms. I guess it's just a matter of perspective.

I did some searching for the quote myself just now. Reportedly, TH first commented on it on his blog, and I *swear* I saw it reiterated on the Dragonlance Legacy facebook page. I'm certain because it caused me to email WOTC to express my desire to see it happen. There's nothing on his blog, and I can't find anything on the facebook page. Read into that what you will.
 

gweinel

Explorer
I would like to see a gritty low magic medieval European setting.

How I would love that too. Birthright, the setting which is the most historical medieval European setting is probably one of my favorites and have influenced greatly during the creation of my homebrew world.
 

variant

Adventurer
How I would love that too. Birthright, the setting which is the most historical medieval European setting is probably one of my favorites and have influenced greatly during the creation of my homebrew world.

I think there were major flaws in Birthright. A symptom I think in part that it was a basic fantasy setting with a low magic medieval European coat of paint on top of it and it doesn't quite synch together. The world building covered way too much of the overall world and as a result there was too much detail about the world as a whole, leaving no mystery, and at the same time there was too little detail about any specific area. It was very much a typical D&D campaign setting in that regard.

I've been spoiled by the A Song of Ice and Fire series and if they want to create a captivating setting, they really need to stand on the shoulders of giants when it comes to this type of setting.

I would even say Birthright has potential, but they would need to start from scratch on it. Reevaluate the high fantasy concepts like awnshegh and how bloodlines are done. It is the human (or humanoid) element that make this type of setting shine, not an overpowered external threat ruling a neighboring kingdom or the neat powers you can get from having a strong bloodline. A major supernatural threat is fine, but it is easy to let those types of things overshadow everything else and I think Birthright suffered just that problem.

It was also too much of a heavy burden on the system to have players run the actual kingdoms. I think that would be fine as some sort of additional module, but not as a core concept of a campaign setting.
 

Salamandyr

Adventurer
I really don't want them to put too much investment into any of their existing campaign properties. A setting book? sure. A line of modules (i hate the term 'adventure path'), why not? But beyond that, I want to get away from the idea there's a "core" setting. The core setting of Dungeons & Dragons is the campaign world you make up, not something an author provides you.
 

Shiroiken

Legend
Just my broken record rant, but Forgotten Realms has no business being default because it changes basic things from the core books.

If the PHB/MM describe elves and dwarves one way, and the Forgotten Realms--which describes them another way--is default, why describe them that way at all?

None of the other settings except Greyhawk describe them the same way as the PHB/MM!

You can't say in the core books, "this is default" and then only create settings that fail to follow the default, and call one of those settings the default!

I might be the only one who likes the "default" elven and dwarven subraces better than the FR take on them, but I'd hope at least some others would recognize the inconsistency in presenting the material in that manner.

/rant off
I'm getting really, really tired of hearing this nonsense. There is NO DEFAULT setting for Next. They are going back to the notion from AD&D, where there are no assumptions for the setting (other than perhaps Greyhawk names on a few spells). Realms is simply going to be released during the first year. Almost certainly Ebberon will follow shortly (maybe early 2015).
 

Osgood

Hero
Somewhere along the way (maybe last years Gencon?) Mearls mentioned the idea of campaign theme books, for example a seafaring book with feats, subclasses, and backgrounds relevant to the sea. I think such books could be a great place to offer lite versions of some of the less popular settings.

For example a book on desert adventures could have a section on the Al Qadim setting, or about kingdom leadership could offer the Birthright setting. This would follow the model of A few editions worth of Oriental Adventures.
 

DMZ2112

Chaotic Looseleaf
I'm getting really, really tired of hearing this nonsense. There is NO DEFAULT setting for Next. They are going back to the notion from AD&D, where there are no assumptions for the setting (other than perhaps Greyhawk names on a few spells). Realms is simply going to be released during the first year. Almost certainly Ebberon will follow shortly (maybe early 2015).

I went back to reread some of what has been said on this topic, and I stumbled across an relevant quote from Mearls, said during the 2012 GenCon keynote:

Mearls said:
The key for us, though, comes down to focus. If we focus on one world at a time, that means we can bring it to life in a way that has never been done before. The Forgotten Realms is a focus on new material, but that doesn't mean we're ignoring our other settings. Let me make that very clear: we're focusing on the Realms to begin with, but that doesn't mean that's the only setting we're ever going to do.

We definitely have things in mind for what we want to do with our other settings. We just want to make sure that if we put all of our energy and focus... and really focus on making one great setting, for now, to avoid splintering our attention and giving you six mediocre ones.

All the emphasis is mine. Assuming what he's describing is still the strategy after two full years of development, Shiroiken may be right. Possibly more right than he knew, depending on how good his memory is. In last weekend's seminar, Perkins referred to FR as the "flagship" setting of D&D5. Flagship can mean a lot of things, but one of those things is just "first out of the gate."

What "one world at a time... we're focusing on the Realms to begin with" tells me is that we're going to get a year or two of heavy Forgotten Realms support, and then it's going to stop, followed by /equally heavy/ support for another setting (props, Shiroiken), which will in turn give way to a third setting in 2017-2018.

What "we can bring it to life in a way that has never been done before... really focus on making one great setting" tells me is that we're getting hardbacks, or at least a lot of thick softcovers. That does not sound like "a few articles in Dragon" to me.

And assuming that Mearls wasn't just picking that "six" out of the air, they may actually have a list of six settings they are planning on supporting over the next decade. Which at least gives us a /target/ -- it means we're most likely looking at the Forgotten Realms (already in production), Ravenloft (mentioned at PAX), Eberron (mentioned at PAX), Dragonlance (mentioned at PAX), Greyhawk (called out by Mearls immediately following the above quote, in the 2012 keynote), and Spelljammer (called out by Mearls in the 01 July 2013 Legends & Lore column). That's a solid cross-section. I could live with that.

I also figured I'd link that 01 July column, because I keep referencing it and it'd be handy to have the link in a recent thread. This is the December 2013 reprint: https://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ll/2013end1

And this is the really relevant bit, at the end of a 120-word paragraph on the subject:

Mearls said:
...when we talk about Spelljammer as it relates to other settings, we're going to focus on it as its own setting and downplay its role as the connecting tether between various D&D Next worlds.

The depth of implication in that statement gets me every time. The article also specifically calls out Planescape as the "default assumption" for the core cosmology's outer planes.
 

variant

Adventurer
Somewhere along the way (maybe last years Gencon?) Mearls mentioned the idea of campaign theme books, for example a seafaring book with feats, subclasses, and backgrounds relevant to the sea. I think such books could be a great place to offer lite versions of some of the less popular settings.

For example a book on desert adventures could have a section on the Al Qadim setting, or about kingdom leadership could offer the Birthright setting. This would follow the model of A few editions worth of Oriental Adventures.

I don't think environment books would be very interesting. There's only so much you can put in a book based around one. I think books based around types of campaigns would be far better. The seafaring book would be like this as would ones based on horror, gritty low magic/political, very high magic, extraplanar, and such.
 
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howandwhy99

Adventurer
Homebrew is the default D&D setting.

Published settings players might ask to be included in the game would be nice, but the amount of information that means including lately is definitely DM-unfriendly. I think the larger CS's built up over the last few decades would be of better service when seen as multiple settings groups can take from piecemeal.
 

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