A simple, system-neutral encumbrance system incorporating weight and bulk

Lanefan said:

In a thread where the topic is encumbrance, I'd be off topic were I to start discussing, say, point-buy vs. rolling as a char-gen method.

But discussing encumbrance and encumbrance tracking systems in a thread about encumbrance? Seems on-message from here.

And if you were hoping for a critique of the system you propose in post 1 I think you already sort of have it from subsequent posts; namely that it - like a great many other encumbrance tracking systems - is too complicated to see consistent use at most tables.

Lan-"and rather than just stop there we go on to start thinking up simpler systems"-efan

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You might have a point, were this a thread about "encumbrance". It is not. It is about a specific encumbrance system. If you do not want to discuss that encumbrance system, feel free to make your own thread about encumbrance.

If you made a thread about D&D character creation, it would then be ok for me to say "D&D character creation is stupid; this thread is now about GURPS character creation"?

In other words, "This thread is of no interest to me, anyway, so I don't feel any guilt about hijacking it. My interests override the OP, and anyone who might actually want to discuss the system."

Random Bystander said:

You might have a point, were this a thread about "encumbrance". It is not. It is about a specific encumbrance system. If you do not want to discuss that encumbrance system, feel free to make your own thread about encumbrance.

If you made a thread about D&D character creation, it would then be ok for me to say "D&D character creation is stupid; this thread is now about GURPS character creation"?

In other words, "This thread is of no interest to me, anyway, so I don't feel any guilt about hijacking it. My interests override the OP, and anyone who might actually want to discuss the system."

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Maybe someone should explain how a discussion forum works?

Imaculata said:

Maybe someone should explain how a discussion forum works?

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Maybe someone should explain how a thread topic works?

Random Bystander said:

If you are not interested in the encumbrance system I posted, why are you hijacking my thread for your own encumbrance systems?

You are being rude. Kindly desist.

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I understand that you feel frustrated that your system is not being discussed, but there is truth in what the other posters are saying about your system being too cumbersome. Kudos for putting your idea out there, but be prepared for criticism. Having the conversation branch into other people's ideas on encumberance is pretty normal and to be expected. Exchange of ideas and all that.

Arilyn said:

I understand that you feel frustrated that your system is not being discussed, but there is truth in what the other posters are saying about your system being too cumbersome. Kudos for putting your idea out there, but be prepared for criticism. Having the conversation branch into other people's ideas on encumberance is pretty normal and to be expected. Exchange of ideas and all that.

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Criticism would be fine. To have the idea be otherwise completely ignored?

No ideas were exchanged. A bulldozer was run over my idea, to make way for someone elses'.

Thread drift is fine. I expect thread drift. I have participated in thread drift. I have drifted threads.

On no forum I have ever been on, was it acceptable to drift a thread on the second post, nor even the first page.

Random Bystander said:

Criticism would be fine. To have the idea be otherwise completely ignored?

No ideas were exchanged. A bulldozer was run over my idea, to make way for someone elses'.

Thread drift is fine. I expect thread drift. I have participated in thread drift. I have drifted threads.

On no forum I have ever been on, was it acceptable to drift a thread on the second post, nor even the first page.

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Ok.
I will address your encumberance system. Mechanically, it is better and more realistic than the traditional "add up the individual weights" kind of system you find in traditional F20 games. For players who enjoy prepping their characters for adventures, and like tracking supplies, etc. I think your system is fine and will feel more realistic. I like the idea of taking a little time to pack your backpack correctly in order to get a bit of a break on the weight.

Games, however, are becoming more streamlined. A lot of boring nitty gritty details are hand waved or abstracted. I think that you'll find most players will find your system, even if it's realistic, not worth the effort. This is why there was an immediate negative reaction to your post.

If your game table likes this level of detail, then I think your system, will go over well.

Arilyn said:

Ok.
I will address your encumberance system. Mechanically, it is better and more realistic than the traditional "add up the individual weights" kind of system you find in traditional F20 games. For players who enjoy prepping their characters for adventures, and like tracking supplies, etc. I think your system is fine and will feel more realistic. I like the idea of taking a little time to pack your backpack correctly in order to get a bit of a break on the weight.

Games, however, are becoming more streamlined. A lot of boring nitty gritty details are hand waved or abstracted. I think that you'll find most players will find your system, even if it's realistic, not worth the effort. This is why there was an immediate negative reaction to your post.

If your game table likes this level of detail, then I think your system, will go over well.

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Thank you. How would you define "better"? I was aiming for around 80% of the utility of a system that counts weight and bulk, without needing to track two different sets of figures, so "more realistic" is good. I have ignored encumbrance entirely and tracked it in detail, depending on the tone of the game; I don't think any player is purely one style all the time. Interesting; would you prefer a system where properly-packed items were counted as less encumbrance, or the current, where back-packs add additional available encumbrance?

Yes, I have encountered the attitude of "I do not enjoy this, so you should not either", to be widespread throughout entertainment, irrespective of any moral or ethical qualifiers. It is bizarre, and frankly, a little horrifying.

A game mechanic, as always, is in service to the game being played. We are not likely to use it if running a humorous fantasy game in which goblins are routinely shoved into sacks. We are much more likely to use it in a survival-based dungeon crawl.

One can, after all, enjoy both One Finger Death Punch and Elite: Dangerous.

Random Bystander said:

Maybe someone should explain how a thread topic works?

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This forum is a market place of ideas. If you bring up a topic, people will discuss all sorts of aspects of that topic. It's not just "Yay" or "Nay". People will offer ideas for improvements, or share homebrew rules for emcumbrance that they've used, or recall stories of why they started or stopped using such a system. All of that is on topic, and may inspire you to make changes to your system.

Heck, in a recent topic about the Wish spell, I brought up how I've ruled the use of a Genie that grants wishes, and how I added limitations to prevent catastrophic events. The Genie is a sidetrack for sure, but totally on topic.

I don't think I've ever minded people bringing up their own systems whenever I opened a thread on a certain homebrew rule. In fact, it is what I welcome. And I think most people on this forum would agree with that. They want to share their ideas with other people. It is an idea exchange. A discussion, if you will.

Now, I criticized your system for being convoluted. I think that's fair. I think it is the primary reason why many people ignore encumbrance rules. I then suggested an alternative way to rule emcumbrance. Not a rule that I've used myself, but I would use it if I were to start caring about encumbrance in my games. Most people would welcome such an idea, because this is a discussion forum. That is the whole point of the forum. It is food for thought.

Imaculata said:

This forum is a market place of ideas. If you bring up a topic, people will discuss all sorts of aspects of that topic. It's not just "Yay" or "Nay". People will offer ideas for improvements, or share homebrew rules for emcumbrance that they've used, or recall stories of why they started or stopped using such a system. All of that is on topic, and may inspire you to make changes to your system.

Heck, in a recent topic about the Wish spell, I brought up how I've ruled the use of a Genie that grants wishes, and how I added limitations to prevent catastrophic events. The Genie is a sidetrack for sure, but totally on topic.

I don't think I've ever minded people bringing up their own systems whenever I opened a thread on a certain homebrew rule. In fact, it is what I welcome. And I think most people on this forum would agree with that. They want to share their ideas with other people. It is an idea exchange. A discussion, if you will.

Now, I criticized your system for being convoluted. I think that's fair. I think it is the primary reason why many people ignore encumbrance rules. I then suggested an alternative way to rule emcumbrance. Not a rule that I've used myself, but I would use it if I were to start caring about encumbrance in my games. Most people would welcome such an idea, because this is a discussion forum. That is the whole point of the forum. It is food for thought.

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Random Bystander said:

You might have a point, were this a thread about "encumbrance". It is not. It is about a specific encumbrance system. If you do not want to discuss that encumbrance system, feel free to make your own thread about encumbrance.

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People have offered no ideas for improvement. The topic is not encumbrance in general, and never was. My system was never discussed until I insisted upon it. It might, if you actually discussed my system.

Disingenious - Your post was on-topic for a discussion of the Wish spell. It would not be on-topic for a discussion of the Wish spell as granted by magic rings. Not on the first page, and certainly not as the second post. Also, you did not sidetrack. You replaced the entire track.

You might have a point, if my idea got discussed. Instead, it got exchanged, all right. For yours.

I have no problems with calling the system "convoluted". I'd have no problem with the direction of discussion if I actually had a chance to reply to that, to discuss how it is convoluted, and various ideas for simplification.

And if you cannot, by now, comprehend that my problem is that my idea did not get discussed, in its own thread; that it instead got thrown aside for yours; and that the idea died before the first page was over - Then nothing I can say further is going to help.

Helpful is not "This idea is stupid; let us all discuss mine."

But I repeat myself; and I suspect you are not reading my entire posts, otherwise you would have known that your every assertion has been answered.

I opened a discussion on elephants. Everyone started talking about hippopotami. And when I complained, people started telling me I should be grateful people were talking about large, arid-plains dwelling plant-eaters.

I have explained, more than once, that all I wanted was for my idea to actually get discussed before the thread got side-tracked.

If you cannot understand why I am angry that the thread immediately began discussing someone elses' idea...Then the problem is no longer on my end.