Combats and Ressources (again...) - How to condense Adventures

The Fighter-Cricket · Mar 17, 2017

Thanks for all of your advice! Right now I think I'll try to solve the issue with the Tweet Fix (wonder why it is called that). I will tell the party that the surroundings of Stonefang Pass are too dangerous (and too damp

...) to get an extended rest. I'll also fiddle with combat difficulty a bit and see how it works out.

Thinking longer about the whole thing I also wonder if 4E really was specifically intended initially to have the 4-5 encounter "workday". DMG2 speaks about that in the segment "Pacing" but I really didn't find any other official info on that. [MENTION=463]S'mon[/MENTION] makes a good point imo if he says that none of the HPE adventures really cared about that kind of pacing. Only the Encounters program had this built into its mechanics (as I re-read some of it thanks to the mention of [MENTION=6874615]Rolenet[/MENTION]).

I always thought about 4E's challenge being about how to survive a fight with tactics (i.e. movement, HS management, battlefield control etc.) and also about when you use your daily ressources in the long run. So would you say that the long run isn't as important as it looks like and the main challenge being about the single encounter? Wonder what you guys think about that.

Rolenet · Mar 17, 2017

S'mon said:
The system is not really designed for attrition, healing surges are the only thing that attrites and the consequences of going into battle with 0 surges are so severe that players will try very hard to avoid it.

I agree, in principle, but in my experience (I've run more than 60 levels this way) the magic of 4e is that it IS possible to balance encounters with strong confidence that the heroes will end the "day" with little, but still some HS. So that dire "0HS" (or anything lower than 2, in fact) situation simply never happened! (And I see no gain in letting players in the dark about how and when they can rest.)

However, it's arguably hard to balance on-the-fly, but the OP wants to plan in advance, hence my advice!

AbdulAlhazred · Mar 17, 2017

The Fighter-Cricket said:
Thanks for all of your advice! Right now I think I'll try to solve the issue with the Tweet Fix (wonder why it is called that). I will tell the party that the surroundings of Stonefang Pass are too dangerous (and too damp ...) to get an extended rest. I'll also fiddle with combat difficulty a bit and see how it works out.

Thinking longer about the whole thing I also wonder if 4E really was specifically intended initially to have the 4-5 encounter "workday". DMG2 speaks about that in the segment "Pacing" but I really didn't find any other official info on that. [MENTION=463]S'mon[/MENTION] makes a good point imo if he says that none of the HPE adventures really cared about that kind of pacing. Only the Encounters program had this built into its mechanics (as I re-read some of it thanks to the mention of [MENTION=6874615]Rolenet[/MENTION]).

I always thought about 4E's challenge being about how to survive a fight with tactics (i.e. movement, HS management, battlefield control etc.) and also about when you use your daily ressources in the long run. So would you say that the long run isn't as important as it looks like and the main challenge being about the single encounter? Wonder what you guys think about that.

DMG1 never SAYS there's a certain assumed number of encounters per day, but all of the math of 4e's resource management seems to be clearly aimed at a target of 5 encounters per day. the number of HS you have in comparison with monster damage output clearly converges to near exhaustion at the 5th reasonable encounter. Milestones come at 2-encounter intervals, which argues plainly for either 3 or 5 as the likely number (IE 1 or 2 milestones followed by another significant encounter after the last one).

You could argue that the developers aimed for 3 encounters per day, but I think the truth is they assumed that the GM would apply effectively encounters 'worth' 5 basic at-level encounters, possibly in the form of 5 encounters (with one or 2 weaker ones and one or 2 stronger ones) or 3 encounters with one being significantly strong. Both patterns work out reasonably well.

I'd note as well that DMG1 DOES tell you what it expects PER LEVEL, something like 6-9 combat encounters with one or maybe 2 that are easier than normal, and a couple that are harder than normal. At least one encounter worth of XP will then be relegated to a major quest, which means you'd normally get one of these per level (though if each PC also gets a minor quest award then you'd be at 8 actual encounters).

So you might model an IDEALIZED 4e level as a day with 5 encounters, including 1 or possibly 2 SCs that come out about average in difficulty (IE maybe one is a level-1 and one is a level+1), followed by another day with 3 harder encounters, including probably one SC with one being level+2 and possibly level+3. One day would resolve a major quest, and the days as a whole would resolve minor quests for each character. Note that you could also have some lower complexity SCs. Instead of 2-3 of complexity 5 you could have a larger number, say up to 5 or more, with complexities varying from 1-5 (in theory they should sum to a level 5 per nominal encounter they replace).

Again, nothing absolutely demonstrates this in the core books as a stated set of rules, but it makes sense. You end up with a fairly good dramatic adventure structure where the PCs forge ahead, accomplish some intermediate goals, regroup, and act out the final climactic part of the adventure, then level up and rest in preparation for the next level's portion of the overall story arc (and a whole adventure module seems to be around 3 levels, which makes sense too).

Rolenet · Mar 18, 2017

The Fighter-Cricket said:
Right now I think I'll try to solve the issue with the Tweet Fix (wonder why it is called that).

It's actually an idiosyncrasic thing of mine. It relates to a blog post by Jonathan Tweet. The blog has vanished, but there's actually a whole thread on EN right here!

Tony Vargas · Mar 19, 2017

The Fighter-Cricket said:
.
Thinking longer about the whole thing I also wonder if 4E really was specifically intended initially to have the 4-5 encounter "workday".

I've heard a rumor that originally the design intent had been longer days, as many as 8 encounters, and KotSf had a strong of em like that, iirc. But that it was reduced, and monsters beefed up.

IMHO, 5 is an ideal day, and odd numbers better because of milestones. But, ultimately, say length impact encounter balance, not class balance due to the AEDU structure. Powering encounters up or down is easy compared to re- imposing class balance, so generally, you can use whatever pacing works for the setting or story.

. So would you say that the long run isn't as important as it looks like and the main challenge being about the single encounter? Wonder what you guys think about that.

No, you can certainly impose challenge over a long day, rather than in each encounter - it'll tend to come down to surges, but you can do it...