Tormenting Demons

cbwjm · Nov 4, 2018

Is it an evil act to torture a demon (or other evil outsider of choice).

On the one hand, they are horrible beings of evil. On the other hand, it is torture.

I'm watching Errimentari: The blacksmith and the devil. It's the only reason I'm asking.

Discodontron · Nov 4, 2018

is Torture inherently evil?
is inflicted an evil act on evil being evil?
is doing evil for the greater Good evil?
These are difficult questions to have to ask your self and your character
I think no, Torture is not inherently evil, and doing such to something that is evil is not a evil.

Diem · Nov 4, 2018

I would actually say yes. A Good character would use means other than torture.

TallIan · Nov 4, 2018

Yes, you are doing the torturing, it doesn’t matter who (what) you are torturing. It’s YOUR actions that you control and choose to justify. The victim’s assumed behaviour has no influence on the morality of your actions.

Morrus · Nov 4, 2018

Discodontron said:
I think no, Torture is not inherently evil, and doing such to something that is evil is not a evil.

That’s what an evil person would say!

Dioltach · Nov 4, 2018

How would you go about torturing a demon? By blessing it? Would that then be evil?

smbakeresq · Nov 4, 2018

It depends on the nature of the torture but in general yes.

If the torture is endless quotes about doing good things and how the demon should repent, that’s not an inherently evil act but could be torture to that creature.

Thumbscrews or the Iron Maiden yes, in all cases.

It’s depends on the nature of the act used to torture. I thought the movie Titanic was torture, the boat couldn’t sink fast enough for me. The movie itself though isn’t inherently evil.

TallIan · Nov 4, 2018

Discodontron said:
I think no, Torture is not inherently evil, and doing such to something that is evil is not a evil.

I would disagree, intentionally causing suffering (pain in the case of torture) in others to achieve your aims IS inherently evil.

UnknownDyson · Nov 4, 2018

Discodontron said:
is Torture inherently evil?

I think no, Torture is not inherently evil, and doing such to something that is evil is not a evil.

A very important question becomes who decides who is evil and who is good. It might be clear-cut for the demon but what about the town blacksmith who's been accused of a grizzly murder? Are you going to torture him to get a confession? Everyone in the town now views him as evil, why wouldn't you?

Another issue with selective moralism is the inherent hypocrisy of it. If demons become special entities that you can commit any depraved act upon without it being evil, it follows that one could seek them out simply for the ability to indulge in heinous behavior with impunity.

For instance, a wizard summons an attractive female demon and imprisons her for the purpose of fulfilling his lust. The demon does not enjoy her captivity and is routinely sexually assaulted by the wizard. Is this behavior condemnable, or does the fact that it's a demon change things?

Draegn · Nov 4, 2018

UnknownDyson said:
A very important question becomes who decides who is evil and who is good. It might be clear-cut for the demon but what about the town blacksmith whose been accused of a grizzly murder? Are you going to torture him to get a confession? Everyone in the town now views him as evil, why wouldn't you?

Another issue with selective moralism is the inherent hipocrsy of it. If demons become special entities that you can commit any depraved act upon without it being evil, it follows that one could seek them out simply for the ability to induldge in heinous behavior with impunity.

For instance, a wizard summons an attractive female demon and imprisons it for the purpose of fulfilling his lust. The demon does not enjoy it's captivity and is routinely sexually assaulted by the wizard. Is this behavior condemnable, or does the fact that it's a demon change things?

In one of the Castle Perilous novels there is a description of how an incubus can provide pleasure in ways a mortal cannot. An npc wizard had discovered a low level succubus hiding from punishment, created a ring to control her and used her as an information source to summon incubii and other beings to entertain a wealthy noble lady who paid for most of his research.

One of my players plays his mage as a person who only summons beings to do his bidding. (Similar to a conjurer adept from Shadowrun) discovered this and decided to take the ring as his own. He "failed" (failure is subjective to point of view) at several solo quests to find a way to take the ring through magic, including giving a charmed hireling to a green hag and becoming her lover, he decided to summon a being well beyond his control. Of course he thought he could control it. The succubus was rather persuasive.

During a siege the player calls upon the balor, the one being that owed the succubus a single debt which was called in. The balor turns on the npc, basically flays him and removes the hand wearing the ring. Both the player mage and succubus wrestle for the hand while the other two player arcane casters in the area are fouling their clothing as they try to rectify the situation.

The players managed to survive mostly due to one player making a deal with the balor. No one really got what they wanted in the end. Each lied to the other characters and npcs when the time came to recount their parts in the siege. Because the city was saved their actions were deemed to be good just accomplished in the wrong way.