D&D 5E I can haz WILD MAGE and the first DRAGONBORN art?

One thing I like about the Wild Magic-chart is that I can use the chart not just for Wild Mages, but also just for casting spells in areas "touched" by Wild Magic. This could be an ancient ruin where, due to bizarre magical experiements long ago, spells don't function like they should. Even Wizards must roll for Wild Magic in such a place.

Wulf Ratbane said:

My solution would be not to play with you. Simpler and more effective.

That's why the wild mage is a non-starter in any incarnation. It slows down the game, it puts too much focus on one player, it's highly likely to "divert fun" to the wild mage at the expense of other players, and it wreaks havoc on the DMs plans and verisimilitude. This is terrible design.

And the Wild Surge table is *always, always* trite. If I were going to allow it-- and I'm not-- I would like at least 10,000 different results. For the level of quality evident in the results previewed, I think a crowd-sourced internet database would be just fine.

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I think from a verisimilitude perspective (a word I don't like to begin with), it's the opposite. I think it's the DM and players having risk-aversion issues and issues with more-certainty in their games, rather than the nature of typical adventuring characters. Characters have a lot more risk-acceptance by their nature as adventurers. The idea that any of them would balk at a minuscule risk like 0.1% breaks verisimilitude for me - they wouldn't blink twice about a risk like that. There is more risk than that in crossing the street in their world.

And it comes up so infrequently that I don't think it draws attention to one player or takes too long.

Paraxis said:

Because some DM's like me like to run games as close to RAW as they can, so I would have a wildmage roll a d20 every time they cast a spell of level 1 or higher and on a 1 they trigger a surge.

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RAW says the wild mage rolls when you say so. No more. No less. If the intent of the RAW were for the wild mage to roll every time, that's what it would say. Instead it goes out of its way to put that effect in the DM's hands. Rolling every time, sometimes, or never are all equally RAW.

Paraxis said:

If a DM doesn't roll every time a spell is cast, if they don't use the other ability that causes surges often, then what is the point of letting someone play the class. It would be like someone playing a paladin and never letting them have the chance to smite evil, or an undead slayer and not including undead in the game. If the player choose to play a wildmage then they want surges to happen, often.

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Again: The rules are intended to give the DM explicit control over how often wild surges happen. I agree that if you're not willing to give the player some wild surges, it's probably best not to allow a wild mage in the first place. But if the surges are happening too often and causing problems, the DM can and should tone it down. If the player expects a wild surge roll every time, well, then, the player needs to re-read his/her class features.

Paraxis said:

Because some DM's like me like to run games as close to RAW as they can, so I would have a wildmage roll a d20 every time they cast a spell of level 1 or higher and on a 1 they trigger a surge.

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RAW is NOT for the wildmage to risk a wild surge with every spell. It doesn't matter how often you say otherwise, it just isn't.

Also, this looks like a great topic for a sidebar in the PH or the DMG - I expect there will be some guidance on this.

Also, I love how people are complaining that the wild mage is too unpredictable AND not random enough.

Nellisir said:

Also, I love how people are complaining that the wild mage is too unpredictable AND not random enough.

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It's almost as if there is a bell-curve of opinion on the matter, and the PH(B) is about in the middle.

Thaumaturge.

Thaumaturge said:

It's almost as if there is a bell-curve of opinion on the matter, and the PH(B) is about in the middle.

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Clearly that's wrong. They should occupy both positions simultaneously.

Roll 4d100. Turn to that page in the phone book, roll 1d100 and call that number. Ask the person on the other end what happens.


Dragon #147 has 4 random result charts. Originally for the wand of wonder, but can be repurposed for wild surges.

sidonunspa said:

Correct,

the GM can have you roll or not.. for example lets say that you are in a particularly epic point in your story with a lot of drama, you could had wave any random wild surge or come up with one on the fly that better fits the scene...

and when the hell did players start looking at GM in an adversarial light? trust your game masters..... if you can't... you have the wrong GM

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I guess the GM could make up an effect of the wild surge, but that is not what is meant in the power description of Tides of Chaos by 'the DM can have you roll'. It is not 'the DM can have you roll on the chart or make one up on the fly that better fits the scene'. It is 'can have you roll' or 'can choose not to have you roll'. Those are the only two options you should read from the power description.

If the DM choose to make something up, use a different table or to whip out his or her long lengs and dance a jig upon the tabletop ... well, there is nothing to stop them, of course. It just does not say or even intimate that in the power itself.

YourSwordIsMine said:

I'm too Skeksi for my Gelfling, too Skeksi for my Gelfling
So Skeksi it hurts

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Someone actually did a mashup of that song with clips of the Chamberlain once and put it on Youtube.

Sadly, due to copyright violation, the audio was removed.

Wulf Ratbane said:

My solution would be not to play with you. Simpler and more effective.

That's why the wild mage is a non-starter in any incarnation. It slows down the game, it puts too much focus on one player, it's highly likely to "divert fun" to the wild mage at the expense of other players, and it wreaks havoc on the DMs plans and verisimilitude. This is terrible design.

And the Wild Surge table is *always, always* trite. If I were going to allow it-- and I'm not-- I would like at least 10,000 different results. For the level of quality evident in the results previewed, I think a crowd-sourced internet database would be just fine.

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It is the players job to wreak havoc on the DMs plans. It is the DMs job to accept this and not have plans which are set in stone but rather ones that dynamically change and adapt according to the actions the PCs choose to take.

The mechanic is squarely placed in the DMs hands, which means the pacing is also placed squarely there too, which means that the game will only 'slow' in that moment the DM deems to be suitable to invoke the powers of chaos. It also allows the DM to choose how much focus s/he gives that player and avoid it all becoming about them. Have they been in the spotlight already this session? Don't invoke Tides of Chaos again just yet until you have spread the spotlight love.

It seems so easy to avoid a feature like this wiping out a party in any case. Say the party has the ill fortune of their wild mage sparking a fireball tha wipes them out mid battle at low levels. I can think of any number of scenarios where I can choose to continue the adventure because in the end the rules are a guide, and being the DM I can choose how and when to exactly apply them that will be the best for the game.

If you want to play by RAW and restart your campaign, go ahead. If you prefer to say that the enemies that survived the fireball stabalised the PCs and took them back to their lair to be salted and peppered on a rotissarie stake over the fire one by one so that the meat does not go off, then do it. Problem solved. If the fireball can wipe the party it can also wipe out all the enemies. So everyone started dying ... while they were rolling death saves the local tribe of brownies who had been watching the battle fearfully, swept in to help the heroes who had stood up to those nasty brownie-gobbling enemies. Or whatever.

I haven't really read through the table, but certainly placing the power of chaos in the Dms hands (with limitations that as soon as s/he invokes it this benefits the player by giving them Tides of Chaos back, which in turn benefits the party, the DM can no longer invoke chaos until Tides of Chaos is used again AND another spell is cast) is not 'terrible design' in my opinion. (It's very clever actually) This will only be terrible in the hands of terrible DMs. But what isn't?