Using the Orb with Sleep
I have copied the following from another forum (
http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=398539&page=3) because I need more opinions on the matter, please...
This from page 279 in the PHB:
"Some powers create effects that require multiple saving throws to fully escape. These powers include aftereffects that apply after you save against the initial effect. For example, a power might knock you unconscious until you save but have an aftereffect that slows you. Once you save against the unconscious condition, you need to save against the slowed condition before you’ve fully escaped the power’s effects. An aftereffect doesn’t begin until after you’ve rolled all your saving throws at the end of your turn. This means you can’t make a saving throw against an aftereffect at the end of the same turn when you saved against the initial effect."
Originally Posted by Deadmanwalking:
And only Web and Necrotic Web have "Effects" that produce a Save. So that seems unlikely to be their intent...
I agree... as seen in the PHB quote above, they use the terms "effect" and "condition" quite loosely, so I think it is safe to say that it doesn't have to be under the "Effects" heading for something to be classified as an effect. Now, the text for the Orb in the PHB says:
"You can designate one creature you have cast a wizard spell upon that has an effect that lasts until the subject succeeds on a saving throw. That creature takes a penalty to its saving throws against that effect equal to your Wisdom modifier."
The way I read this, you can use the Orb EITHER on the saves against "unconsciousnous" OR on the saves against "slowed", since either classifies as "an effect that lasts until the subject succeeds on a saving throw".
So the real question is, would the "aftereffect" of an initial effect also be seen as an effect for the purposes of defining it in terms of using the Orb?
Our options are:
a) Both are seen as effects - You may use the Orb on any one of them
b) Only the initial effect is seen as an effect - You may only use the Orb on that
c) As a whole they are seen as an effect - You can use the Orb on both as one
I would love choose option (c) but honestly, it would feel a bit like cheating; you are forcing the BBEG to take a double penalty, not to mention you are applying the Orb to
two effects that last until the subject succeeds on a saving throw, which is hardly what the PHB says.
That leaves us with options (a) & (b), so IMO you can
only use the Orb on
one effect, especially because the effects stack...