E6: The Game Inside D&D

[unundindur]

I am about to build a complete excel database of all wondrous items from the DMG, DMG2 and MiC that comply with E6. For me this means they must use maximum 3rd level spells, and a maximum caster level of 7 (assuming someone will be able to increase their caster level by 1). I will post it here when I am done with it, but it takes a hell of a lot of time...

On a side note, I am running my first E6 campaign and it is running very well, even though we are going through the levels faster than what makes sense in this context.

E6 seems extremely well souted for "persistent world" concepts. By this I mean that you don't have to focus so much on monitoring resources, since items are capped anyway. If you happen to have 4 million gold pieces you may get some great stuff, but you can only wear so much.

And so far, the most powerful items of e6 seems to be major cloak of displacement and helm of underwater action.

 

[Alzrius]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but the Loot 4 Less series of PDFs, by IDA, is a series of books completely in the spirit of E6. I can't recommend them enough for anyone who wants a better variety of low-power magic items for their E6 games (after all, a wand of fireballs can still be disruptive in an E6 game, but L4L wands are much more in the theme of the game). Check them out:

Loot 4 Less Vol. I: Rings & Things
Loot 4 Less Vol. II: Rods, Staffs & Wands
Loot 4 Less Vol. III: Belts, Boots, Cloaks, & Gloves

 

[Aus_Snow]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but the Loot 4 Less series of PDFs, by IDA, is a series of books completely in the spirit of E6. I can't recommend them enough for anyone who wants a better variety of low-power magic items for their E6 games (after all, a wand of fireballs can still be disruptive in an E6 game, but L4L wands are much more in the theme of the game). Check them out:

Loot 4 Less Vol. I: Rings & Things
Loot 4 Less Vol. II: Rods, Staffs & Wands
Loot 4 Less Vol. III: Belts, Boots, Cloaks, & Gloves

Hm. Might just do that. But could you (or someone, at least) recommend another thing useful for E6, to take it over the minimum purchase total? I have quite a lot of PDFs already, so that mightn't be the easiest request, but TIA, if you can think of anything.

 

[Alzrius]

Hm. Might just do that. But could you (or someone, at least) recommend another thing useful for E6, to take it over the minimum purchase total? I have quite a lot of PDFs already, so that mightn't be the easiest request, but TIA, if you can think of anything.

Well, there are some supplements regarding low-level spells, which sort of fits with low-level magic items.

Octavirate Presents #3: Simple Tricks and Nonsense, from Octavirate Games, is a book all about cantrips. It not only has several dozen new cantrips, most of which are non-combat themed, but also has related rules. For example, there are feats to let any character cast a few cantrips. There's also revised spellcasting tables to let spellcasters gain additional 0-level spells for high ability scores, and a Hedge Mage NPC class. Nicely, there's also expanded spell lists and spellcasting tables to give 0-level spells to classes that don't usually receive them, such as paladins, rangers, etc.

Minor Magicks, from Silverthorne Games, is a book of low-level spells and magic items. Ranging from level 0-3, there are a few dozen spells here, all of which are meant to be utility spells for the common man. Similarly, all of the items are ones that'd be much more useful to a commoner than an adventurer, in terms of practical application.

I think both of these would work well in an E6 game in terms of power level, but there's one regard in which I'm somewhat hesitant. There seems to be an unspoken assumption in both books that magic is fairly ubiquitous. After all, if people have been inventing spells to stimulate hair growth, or create a little black cloud that rains on a person's head, then clearly magic isn't exactly a mysterious, fearsome force, which is what E6 seems to be striving for.

On the other hand, that's my own prejudice showing through. It might make sense in your game that, with magic being restricted in power, it's wider in versatility, and people have made it work for them in more ways than just attacking and defending. Either way, you may get some use out of these books for your E6 game.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Thanks, Alzrius. I'll see what appeals to me most, after finding out a bit more about those, and anything else I can track down that seems potentially relevant.

Now to bump that thread I started. . .

 

[Waspinator]

Am I the only one having trouble with the PDF? It seems to be missing page 4.

 

[Werebat]

OK, so let's say I'm playing a wizard in E6.

It's pretty easy to bring your caster level up really high even in E6. At 6th level, it's 6th (obviously). Tack on the following with the spell Scorching Ray:

1. Arcane Thesis (adds +2)
2. Domain Wizard: Fire (adds +1)
3. That fireball-esque reserve feat from Complete Mage (adds +1)
4. The draconic ancestry feat from Races of the Dragon (pick red dragon) (adds +1)

There are other ways to bump as well, but this will suffice for now as it brings our CL for Scorching Ray up to 11, which is where it maxes out at 3 rays for a total of 12d6 damage.

Now comes the fun part.

Empowering Spellshard from MiC lets us empower a scorching ray 3/day.
Swift Metamagic can be taken for both Split Ray and Maximize
We can also take Sudden Maximize
Arcane Thesis lets us memorize a split scorching ray as a 3rd level spell.

Now we can cast a split (via swift metamagic), empowered (via empowering spellshard), maximized (via sudden maximize) scorching ray as an 11th level caster. This puppy will do well over 100 points of damage to some lucky target (124 on average).

Thanks to the handy-dandy Conviction Points, we can get an extra standard action and cast ANOTHER one of these monstrosities in the same round (this time amping up with a 3rd level memorized split scorching ray, the empowering spellshard, and a swift maximize). 248 damage in one round, woohoo!

Does this seem like it breaks E6? I really like the system but I'm still seeing trouble with wizards. I've ruled that you can't metamagic a spell to beyond the point where it would be a 9th level spell if metamagicked via the "conventional" method, but the scorching ray cheese I'm talking about here still works with that rule (2nd level spell +2 for split ray +2 for empower +3 for maximize = 9th level spell).

???

 

[Scurvy_Platypus]

Disclaimer: I don't play casters in d20 because this kind of stuff is just a hassle...

Ummm... congratulations?

I don't know quite what you're looking for. Could someone do that? Well, I've got no clue. Would a DM that's running an E6 game in the first place _allow_ that? I'm thinking it's pretty doubtful. Depends on why the person is running an E6 game in the first place.

While many people that are attracted to E6 are into it because they want a "low magic" and/or "gritty" game, that certainly doesn't mean everybody is into it for that reason.

I for example just don't see much point to the whole inflation of levels, hit points, and all that other stuff. After a point, it's just "more".

If Wizards are a problem... ban 'em.

If you try to close every single potential loophoole/cheesy/exploitative approach to the game, you're going to have a massive tome of rules to try and deal with.

Me? If I was really concerned about it, I'd say that a spell can't ever function better than the caster's level. Now, you could say that the caster's level is the total overall character level, or it could be limited to the spellcaster's class level that's being used for casting the spell in the first place.

In other words, if you've got a Fighter 3 / Wizard 3, you can either say the spell can't function better than a 6th level spell (total character level) or it can't function better than a 3rd level spell (level of the casting class).

Why limit it to 6th level? Because there's no such thing as a level above 6th. The idea behind E6 isn't "we're not going to level our characters past 6th level", it's "there's no such thing as a level beyond 6th."

It's a bit of a subtle distinction, but if you or some player is going to be trying that hard to exploit the system, that's going to be the first "polite" approach I'm going to take to limiting that sort of thing.

You can't cast it as an 11th level caster because there's no such thing.

 

[Imp]

I really like the system but I'm still seeing trouble with wizards. I've ruled that you can't metamagic a spell to beyond the point where it would be a 9th level spell if metamagicked via the "conventional" method, but the scorching ray cheese I'm talking about here still works with that rule (2nd level spell +2 for split ray +2 for empower +3 for maximize = 9th level spell).

Keeping in the spirit of E6, I would tend to hard-cap metamagic effects (including those from items) at 3rd or maybe possibly 4th level spell slots, which would put the big metamagic effects right out. I don't know what the ideal spot is, but I certainly wouldn't let the metamagic stack to 9th.

 

[jensun]

Keeping in the spirit of E6, I would tend to hard-cap metamagic effects (including those from items) at 3rd or maybe possibly 4th level spell slots, which would put the big metamagic effects right out. I don't know what the ideal spot is, but I certainly wouldn't let the metamagic stack to 9th.

You could just remove arcane thesis on the basis that its brokety broke broke.