Forked Thread: GTS 2009 D&D Seminar - 4e video game

[Cadfan]

When I saying specific I mean much more specific and stable than what you had in BG. Milestone specific: clearing the guards of a gate (that will always have to be there to defend the gate even if you killed them the last time. Since combats in 4e are more complicated and beg for more variety, having to repeat the same combats -on the same disposition of terrain, etch- would be a problem IMO.

In my humble opinion, it was a problem in earlier games as well.

Its not realistic for the guards to just keep coming back as you just keep slaughtering them. And its annoying to go through the same fight for no apparent gain, especially if the combat system isn't incredibly interesting, and the game is designed to not permit XP farming.

Its the old "boredom as punishment" trick, and I hate it. "Play in the way I say you should, or else you'll have to replay the same fight over and over for no gain, without advancing the plot."

Its almost as horrible as requiring people to reload from saving checkpoints, so that when you die fighting the boss, you have to repeat the whole level over again just to get a second chance in the final battle.

 

[hong]

In my humble opinion, it was a problem in earlier games as well.

Its not realistic for the guards to just keep coming back as you just keep slaughtering them. And its annoying to go through the same fight for no apparent gain, especially if the combat system isn't incredibly interesting, and the game is designed to not permit XP farming.

Its the old "boredom as punishment" trick, and I hate it. "Play in the way I say you should, or else you'll have to replay the same fight over and over for no gain, without advancing the plot."

Its almost as horrible as requiring people to reload from saving checkpoints, so that when you die fighting the boss, you have to repeat the whole level over again just to get a second chance in the final battle.

I'm not sure where xechnow got the idea of respawning set-piece encounters from. He started talking about random encounters, and now has wandered off into talking about set pieces. No game I know has respawning set pieces, even the exploration-heavy ones.

 

[xechnao]

Well, you did make specific mention of "random encounters".

You appear to be conflating set-piece encounters with random ones. The set pieces can certainly be as complicated as you like, and they wouldn't repeat. The random ones, however, can be exactly that: random. 5 monsters that you meet in the middle of nowhere, with no fancy terrain or other features.

But that "nowhere" cannot be connected with the milestones you were talking about, the way you have put them. This, the milestones and their encounters is what I was talking about. It should be possible and desirable to have the ability to revisit a map and make it somehow interesting.

 

[xechnao]

I'm not sure where xechnow got the idea of respawning set-piece encounters from. He started talking about random encounters, and now has wandered off into talking about set pieces. No game I know has respawning set pieces, even the exploration-heavy ones.

eh?

 

[hong]

But that "nowhere" cannot be connected with the milestones you were talking about, the way you have put them.

Yes. It's a feature, not a bug.

This, the milestones and their encounters is what I was talking about. It should be possible and desirable to have the ability to revisit a map and make it somehow interesting.

Of course you can revisit a map and have it be interesting... if you haven't finished the quests located there, and you haven't explored it fully yet. If you've already done all that, then respawning milestones and/or encounters is not going to make anything more interesting. A usual prerequisite for "exploration" is that the area you're in has to be unexplored.

 

[Cadfan]

Here's the final image. Its mostly notable for how NOT revolutionary it is.

I only depicted two paths in the drawing. You could have more or less, and the initial gate doesn't necessarily have to be entering the locale you're raiding. You could do multiple entrances, whatever, as per normal RPG design techniques. I only wanted to do one drawing, though, so I went with something simple. Complexity could be added as importance merits.

 

[xechnao]

Yes. It's a feature, not a bug.


Of course you can revisit a map and have it be interesting... if you haven't finished the quests located there, and you haven't explored it fully yet. If you've already done all that, then respawning milestones and/or encounters is not going to make anything more interesting. A usual prerequisite for "exploration" is that the area you're in has to be unexplored.

The question comes regarding multiple quests. Would they be totally separate or would there exist some influence, at least the first time you visit the map? Could-should you take the whole map in one go, or should you have a mechanism to force you choose one quest and make this decision meaningful regarding what happens in the other maps? And so probably having to revisit the area again.

 

[hong]

The question comes regarding multiple quests. Would they be totally separate or would there exist some influence, at least the first time you visit the map?

I do not think "influence" means what you think it means. And both of these are possible.

Could-should you take the whole map in one go, or should you have a mechanism to force you choose one quest and make this decision meaningful regarding what happens in the other maps?

Both of these are possible.

And so probably having to revisit the area again.

This is certainly possible. It is also unrelated to respawning random monsters and milestones.

 

[xechnao]

I do not think "influence" means what you think it means. And both of these are possible.



Both of these are possible.



This is certainly possible. It is also unrelated to respawning random monsters and milestones.

What do you think influence means?

 

[hong]

What do you think influence means?

I think you meant to say "relationship", but I can't be sure. Why don't you clarify?