Flying is Epic - But Ebony Fly is high heroic?

[Starfox]

Most flight powers and rituals are epic level. There are riding animals that fly at much lower level - the Hippogriff at level 5 is the lowest. But riding animals have their own limitations; they are large, they need constant care, and they are often hard to get into the places where you need them. So far, things seem rather balanced.

Enter the Ebony Fly. It is level 9. It has all the advantages and flaws of a flying mount, except that it is a conjuration. It has the minor drawback of costing healing surges, but these gives it scaling (if low) hit points. Mostly, however, it is just a very nice utility power.

Doesn't this invalidate the Epic level restriction of flight powers? If something you can fit in your pocket can give you eight hours of noncombat flight, rituals like Overland Flight seem pretty silly. The Ebony Fly costs 4200 gp and is resuable; Overland Flight has a casting cost of 5000 gp.

I am seriosuly considering banning the Ebony Fly. Views?

 

[Obryn]

One thing to note - the Temporary HPs only last 5 minutes. You can't conjure it in the morning, and keep the THPs throughout the day.

-O

 

[CapnZapp]

I don't think you need to ban the Ebony Fly.

Just don't allow everybody in your party to get one.

 

[Starfox]

I'm giving my players very free reign in the selection of magic items - its a tradition in our games.

 

[Tuft]

You may also want to compare the Pearl Sea Horse with the Waterbreathing ritual (and similar).

You can also note that with Figurine mounts, you get the Mounted Combat feat for free, when comparing with regular mounts.

 

[Old Gumphrey]

Adventurer's Vault is pretty much "Player's Handbook, cranked to 11" anyhow. Nothing that comes out of that book really surprises me anymore.

 

[bganon]

What epic level restriction of flight powers? Fly is level 16, Warlocks have combat flight at level 10 (Shadow Form), Druids and Sorcerers get limited flight at level 6.

Those only last five minutes (or less). But I can't think of too many situations where full-day overland flight is that much better than regular (magic) overland travel like Shadow Walk (which is cheaper than an Ebony Fly) plus five minutes of flight.

But full-day overland flight isn't Epic-level stuff even in the first Player's Handbook. If you have +20 Arcana you can just barely get flying Phantom Steeds, and the ritual's so cheap you can cast it 20 times if you need to. An Int-based caster can hit +20 Arcana at level 10 without even trying terribly hard, and that's without other party members helping with the ritual. Certainly by level 14 flying steeds are easy to come by if you really want them.

I think the Ebony Fly is more a reaction to how overpriced the Flying Carpet is.

 

[Starfox]

Actually, its not so much the overland flight that worries me as the ability to fly as much as you want in an encounter. This is indeed level 16 for select classes, not epic. But the Ebony Fly is still 7 levels earlier and available to everyone. There are no other items of heroic or paragin level that allow such flexible flight; the closest is one that gives a mount flying ability.

Another way to express this; at what level would a ritual let you do something like this? Overland flight is level 20; Phantom steed is level 6 but reliably getting an Arcana result of 40 is again mid-paragon. And rituals requires specialized skills that the Ebony Fly does not.

I am not trying to bash the Ebony Fly here; I am trying to see if it is balanced and if you can base other effects on it.

 

[Shin Okada]

Ebony Fly is not so durable. A wizard in my current party (L8) has one and enjoy using it. But so many opponents use close or area attacks and the fly is often killed within a round or two. Some clever opponents use ranged attacks against the fly, because it is much easier to kill the fly (and let the rider drop) than to disable the rider.

It is certainly an useful magic item. Still, I don't think it to be too powerful.

 

[Nifft]

Druids and Sorcerers get limited flight at level 6

Wizards also get Levitation at level 6.

Fast flight may be Paragon or Epic, but limited flight is certainly available in Heroic.

Cheers, -- N