Goodman Games solicits input

[Hairfoot]

I don't recall any threads being started on the topic, not sure why someone would bother with that.

Really? When edition wars and campaigns of acrimony were consuming this site, you're not sure why someone would bother starting a thread defending the roll-out?

People will start threads here to ask about a character picking his nose. If there were no defences of the WotC shaft-a-thon, it sure as heck wasn't because the company was universally admired.

 

[haakon1]

Assuming it wouldn't horribly raise the printing costs, I'd prefer having an appendix at the back for converting to various RPG systems, possibly with perforated edges to be able to have the stat blocks right there while the adventure is open.

I fully agree with this. But it might be too costly, in which case stat downloads is close enough.

 

[Jack99]

I wasn't paying a lot of attention during the market implosion, but I do recall that every time I visited ENworld while it was going on, there seemed to be a consensus of, "I love 4E but this corporate jerk-around is terrible".

It was actually more the opposite.
*I hate WotC*
*I hate 4e*
*I haven't bought a WotC product in years because I buy into the Paizteria, but I am still pissed because WotC didn't make the kind of game "I" want to play*

Those were much more common than the *I like 4e but do not like the marketing*.

And as 5E mentioned, no matter how many claims turned out to be gross exaggerations or outright lies, people kept using them. Hell, some are still using them. But that's not to say that they didn't happen. Far from all were happy with the marketing decisions made by WotC. The problem with calling them blunders is that we do not really have any evidence that it has cost them money. All we know is that D&D is still the biggest baddest and best selling RPG on the market, by light-years. Sure, there are some who claim to have left because of the marketing (like, seriously dude), but how many have WotC gained? Only they know. And they claim 4e is a smashing success, crunching expectations and projections. But, then again, perhaps they are just lying of course, after all, they are WOtC.

 

[dm4hire]

My disgruntlement started with the failure to uphold the promise of open beta for 4e and slowly built from there. I stayed a fence sitter for a year or so, but slowly devolved into a "it's great for a pickup game" mentality then moved on. I personally believe that if WotC had done the open beta and loosened their grip on the mechanics, which they seem to think are exclusively theirs, the game would be a lot better and there wouldn't be nearly as much schism as we're seeing. Until 4e the majority of mechanics were still very similar which is why I believe the rift between editions wasn't so noticeable compared to what we're seeing now, that and the internet definitely allows people to be more outspoken about it.

As far as Goodman goes though I still think they can pull if off if done correctly though I don't know if the market will support it. As has been mentioned a lot of players don't want cross market products.

 

[Hairfoot]

And as 5E mentioned, no matter how many claims turned out to be gross exaggerations or outright lies, people kept using them. Hell, some are still using them. But that's not to say that they didn't happen. Far from all were happy with the marketing decisions made by WotC. The problem with calling them blunders is that we do not really have any evidence that it has cost them money. All we know is that D&D is still the biggest baddest and best selling RPG on the market, by light-years. Sure, there are some who claim to have left because of the marketing (like, seriously dude), but how many have WotC gained? Only they know. And they claim 4e is a smashing success, crunching expectations and projections. But, then again, perhaps they are just lying of course, after all, they are WOtC.

Just to clarify, you're saying, "case X is probably true, but we don't know. Y also may have happened, but there's no way of being sure. Everyone said Z, and also didn't, and are still saying it, but not. But who cares, because I like a game that definitely maybe possibly certainly in actual fact but not or who knows could be subjectively objectively in my opinion only and that of everyone else is the best ever, if anyone could demonstrate it, but the company marketing it says it is, so it might be."

Phwoosh! Goodnight edition wars!

 

[Snoweel]

If it says "4e" on the cover, I'm not even picking up it to read what it's about at the FLGS

Yeah?

Well I'll buy it without even reading the back cover.

 

[BryonD]

All we know is that D&D is still the biggest baddest and best selling RPG on the market, by light-years.

For one reason: the name

Go to an alternate universe where anyone of a dozen other games is called D&D 4E and THAT would be "the biggest baddest and best selling RPG on the market, by light-years". (what exactly is the conversion rate between a dollar and a light year?)

The question is: did D&D establish the enduring fan base it COULD have with 4E? I believe the answer is not at all and it doesn't require any WotC lies 18 months ago to see it that way.

I don't hate wotc. They just don't produce any products that interest me.
I don't hate 4E. There are just vastly better games out there.
I'm not pissed at all. But, why shouldn't I call it like I see it? Particularly considering that every prediction I made in the first half of 2008 has come true so far.

 

[Hairfoot]

Well I'll buy it without even reading the back cover.

That there is precisely the type of savvy, discerning and informed consumer Hasbro appreciates. Make it super-size, bro.

 

[Fifth Element]

People will start threads here to ask about a character picking his nose. If there were no defences of the WotC shaft-a-thon, it sure as heck wasn't because the company was universally admired.

You're already forgetting what I wrote. I didn't say that WotC is universally admired. I merely said that their marketing was not the complete and utter train wreck that many make it out to be. It was not perfect - I'm arguing the truth lies in the middle, remember? - but it was not terrible.

 

[Fifth Element]

It was actually more the opposite.
*I hate WotC*
*I hate 4e*
*I haven't bought a WotC product in years because I buy into the Paizteria, but I am still pissed because WotC didn't make the kind of game "I" want to play*

Indeed. I still remember posting "I'm cautiously optimistic about 4E" or "Actually, I don't think 4E is actually raping your childhood" and getting called a fanboy, repeatedly. I'm paraphrasing, of course.