Goodman Games solicits input

[BryonD]

You're already forgetting what I wrote. I didn't say that WotC is universally admired. I merely said that their marketing was not the complete and utter train wreck that many make it out to be. It was not perfect - I'm arguing the truth lies in the middle, remember? - but it was not terrible.

I agree completely.

 

[Hairfoot]

You're already forgetting what I wrote. I didn't say that WotC is universally admired. I merely said that their marketing was not the complete and utter train wreck that many make it out to be. It was not perfect - I'm arguing the truth lies in the middle, remember? - but it was not terrible.

I have to disagree, objectively.

It's not worth the trouble for either of us to trawl old threads to build a case, but at the height of the fiasco, all but the most rabid 4E-or-bust enthusiasts were facepalming over the botched DDI, the virtual tabletop that wasn't, the abrupt, "all vill play ze new edition, no exceptions", pullling of OOP PDFs etc.

 

[BryonD]

I have to disagree, objectively.

It's not worth the trouble for either of us to trawl old threads to build a case, but at the height of the fiasco, all but the most rabid 4E-or-bust enthusiasts were facepalming over the botched DDI, the virtual tabletop that wasn't, the abrupt, "all vill play ze new edition, no exceptions", pullling of OOP PDFs etc.

I agree completely.

Really.

Your examples are accurate. And Fifth Element's generalization is not incompatible.

 

[jaerdaph]

Is there a time line for troop withdrawal in these Edition Wars? Because it's like 2010 now...

Interesting that the same, small handful of people on both "sides" who claim elsewhere to be sick of edition wars are right back in the middle of the fray too.

 

[Umbran]

Is there a time line for troop withdrawal in these Edition Wars? Because it's like 2010 now...

Interesting that the same, small handful of people on both "sides" who claim elsewhere to be sick of edition wars are right back in the middle of the fray too.

Agreed.

Folks, if you don't like edition wars, here's hint #1 - DON'T PARTICIPATE!

 

[Fifth Element]

I agree completely.

Really.

Your examples are accurate. And Fifth Element's generalization is not incompatible.

I agree with this. I'm not talking only about rabid 4E enthusiasts. I think that most people didn't have strong feelings about the marketing one way or the other. Some thought it was great, some terrible, but I'm pretty sure most were "Whatever, let me see the new rules already so I can see if I want to try it."

 

[Jack99]

Just to clarify, you're saying, "case X is probably true, but we don't know. Y also may have happened, but there's no way of being sure. Everyone said Z, and also didn't, and are still saying it, but not. But who cares, because I like a game that definitely maybe possibly certainly in actual fact but not or who knows could be subjectively objectively in my opinion only and that of everyone else is the best ever, if anyone could demonstrate it, but the company marketing it says it is, so it might be."

Phwoosh! Goodnight edition wars!

Haha.. I might not have been clear in my attempt to be non-confrontational. Lets try again.

There was a lot of claims about WotCs lies and marketing. Most seems based on half-truths and lies, but some certainly had merits - like the PDF-gate.

Yet despite the loud internet-rantings, the prevalent nerdrage, the complaints and the marketing f***-ups, no one has any presented any proof or numbers that contradicts WotC's claim that 4e is doing great.

As to BryonD, sure, 4e is the biggest on the block due to it's name. Just as 3.5, 3.e and 2e was. I do not know if it brings in a lot of new blood. The RPGA has exploded with members, from what I am told, but I live like 3,5k miles away and I have been playing with the same 5-7 people for 20 years, so I am probably not well-placed to talk about bringing new blood to the industry.

E

 

[Sunderstone]

A response copy-pasted from Goodmans forums

I didn't quite expect so many responses. I was "just saying." Next time maybe I'll ask if I should publish my modules in Hebrew or Arabic -- might as well try to bring peace to the Middle East while I discuss Pathfinder and 4E in the same breath...

Regarding what makes a good module, the debate "out there" is the same debate we've had many times "in here." Is it the story, characters, and plot, which are easily adapted to any system? Or is it the tactics, statistics, and rules elements, which are more specific to a system? I lean more toward the former, some other folks are more toward the latter.

It seems from the various posts that the same perspectives exist more broadly. Frankly, this makes me more hesitant to try multi-system support within the same product line. For every customer who appreciates the adaptability, someone else will interpret it as a dilution of the native ruleset.

I'm also not interested in being the lightning rod for the edition wars. Apparently if I support Pathfinder it means 4E sales are terrible, whereas my ongoing support for Chaosium's BRP means 4E sales are okay? I run Goodman Games for fun, not profit, and when people post vitriolic messages because I do (or don't) support 4E (or Pathfinder), I have to ask myself, "Do I really want to be involved in this?" I sincerely wish the nature of the debate were much more civil.

I did like the suggestion of a DCC RPG. Great minds think alike.

_________________
Joseph Goodman
Goodman Games
Goodman Games

hope no one minds the copy/paste thing

 

[Mark Chance]

hope no one minds the copy/paste thing

I don't mind. It might even serve to bring this thread back on-topic ("Goodman solicits input" not "4E sales are doing X").

I have several DCC in PDF and one or two hard copy. I purchased them when Goodman put them on-sale prior to going 4E. I've enjoyed reading the ones I've read. I'm enjoying running the one I'm running.

If Goodman were to support 3.5 or Pathfinder (which, in my mind, are close enough to be interchangeable from a DM's perspective), I'd consider purchasing more DCC, assuming my wife would give me the money.

 

[Sunderstone]

I don't mind. It might even serve to bring this thread back on-topic ("Goodman solicits input" not "4E sales are doing X").

I have several DCC in PDF and one or two hard copy. I purchased them when Goodman put them on-sale prior to going 4E. I've enjoyed reading the ones I've read. I'm enjoying running the one I'm running.

If Goodman were to support 3.5 or Pathfinder (which, in my mind, are close enough to be interchangeable from a DM's perspective), I'd consider purchasing more DCC, assuming my wife would give me the money.

Im the same with the exception that my other half doesnt mind that I spend on things I like.

I own about 30 or so DCCs (print) and 2 PDFs (one is an extra PDF copy of CW) myself.