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Unconfirmed: More Layoffs at WotC

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Jdvn1

Hanging in there. Better than the alternative.
Sadly, the claim seems to be that D&D is fine because WotC exists, while brands like MtG and Pokemon tend to have the actual reputation for being the breadwinners of WotC. In the absence of numbers showing the prosperity of the D&D brand specifically, and given that the target of regular WotC layoffs appear to mostly be from the D&D sections of the company, I often find the claims of D&D being in good shape post-Hasbro takeover to be suspect. Seems more like a property that Hasbro has hope will perform longterm because it had a 30+ year history when they picked up WotC.
I totally believe Hasbro has long term expectations for WotC, and that they're trying to grow the brand. Every well-functioning company should have similar aspirations. Every company has both short term and long term investments, and I'm sure there is a similar situation at WotC. Still, you don't rely on a hope, and you don't expect "the next big thing" to solve all of your financial woes. That's just not how large companies are run.

It's not like Hasbro evaluates WotC every six months, and every six months they're surprised, "Oh! WotC has underperformed! We didn't see this coming! Let's cut the staff." Hasbro, WotC, and their employees all know this happens every six months. It's not a sign they're going under, and it won't cause them to self-destruct, it's just part of their normal operation procedure, and they have apparently been satisfied with its results.

Sure, maybe MtG and Pokemon are more successful than D&D. That is simply besides the point, though. Every other brand isn't necessarily doomed to failure.
 

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TerraDave

5ever, or until 2024
This is getting to be quite a side discussion, but regular layoffs as a strategy provides a way to trim under-performing employees, and provides a clear statement to employees that they need to maintain a competitive edge.

From what we know--which is limited--top performing employees seem as likely to be let go, if not more so. We have heard of many of these people.

EDIT: Ooh, split double post! What do I win?
 
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Jdvn1

Hanging in there. Better than the alternative.
Okay, it is a long thread, so maybe I missed it - has anyone done a count to see how many people have been let go from other parts of the company?

I ask merely because we must be careful of the appearances - we are apt to talk a lot about D&D-side layoffs, while layoffs in other portions could happen without comment on these boards. We remember what we see, and all that.
I haven't seen it, but maybe I missed it too.

Being largely unfamiliar with the other brands, I don't know how many "big names" there are in them either--so any lay offs may get less attention. D&D, I think, is somewhat unique among the WotC brands in that there's much more text to write (and, I'd guess, more complicated rules), and so good writers matter more and get more attention.
 

Mark

CreativeMountainGames.com
I totally believe Hasbro has long term expectations for WotC, and that they're trying to grow the brand.


I think we all agree with that, or hope it is the case anyway.


Every well-functioning company should have similar aspirations. Every company has both short term and long term investments, and I'm sure there is a similar situation at WotC.


Fair enough.


Still, you don't rely on a hope, and you don't expect "the next big thing" to solve all of your financial woes. That's just not how large companies are run.


Here's where you begin to get confused, since WotC has multiple properties and they do hope the properties all out perform their previous mark, and that is how all companies are run. It is also true that Hasbro hangs on to properties for the long haul and that they are apparently planning to hang on to D&D. They had the chance to unload it right after getting WotC and plenty of opportunity since. When a corporation holds properties, it generally tries to do something with them, either in-house or through licensing. WotC does both with D&D and they do indeed hope but cannot guarantee that those efforts will be entirely fruitful.


It's not like Hasbro evaluates WotC every six months, and every six months they're surprised, "Oh! WotC has underperformed! We didn't see this coming! Let's cut the staff." Hasbro, WotC, and their employees all know this happens every six months. It's not a sign they're going under, and it won't cause them to self-destruct, it's just part of their normal operation procedure, and they have apparently been satisfied with its results.


Where to begin . . . This bit of hyperbole starts by creating your strawman (no one but you seems to be claiming Hasbro is staffed by morons?), then mischaracterizing what others are saying (going under?), then drawing a conclusion (Hasbro satisfied?) for which there is no definite evidence one way or another (as mentioned up thread). I'm amazed how much you crammed into that little passage. To reply with some sense, corporations regularly have companies and divisions that underperform, and the indicators of this are viewed far more often than simply every six months (even what they are charged to show their shareholders comes every quarter). A sign that some portion of a company is in trouble relative to how they are expected to perform is how stable the workforce is maintained.


Sure, maybe MtG and Pokemon are more successful than D&D. That is simply besides the point, though. Every other brand isn't necessarily doomed to failure.


As Erik points out for both our benefit, no more Pokemon, and though there are other properties, MtG is certainly the one that apparently stands out as having a reputation for being worthy of mention when touting what in WotC can be reported to Hasbro and their shareholders during quarterly reports. D&D doesn't seem to get a mention. As to the assertion upthread that other areas of the company aside from the D&D departments have similar layoffs, while that would be a shame, I've never seen any evidence of this. Anyone who wishes to dispute that the D&D areas of WotC shoulder the largest burden of the systematic/periodic layoffs, please step up and go on the record. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, we can only go on what we know.
 

tomBitonti

Adventurer
From what we know--which is limited--top performing employees seem as likely to be let go, if not more so. We have heard of many of these people.

Well, you have to include a cost factor in your estimate of "top performing". "Top performing" but "most expensive" is perhaps a wash.
 

renau1g

First Post
It can also be a way to get rid of high-salary employees, people at the top of their pay grades.

I've seen this a lot in the automotive sector. A Senior Project Manager makes $80k, a more junior one makes $55k. They do relatively similar jobs, although the senior PM is usually better at keeping his project on track. However with the recent meltdown of the big 3 many of the senior one's were let go to lower operating costs despite more years of service and expertise. One of the ones I knew was the "top performer" at his shop, but making $115k was too much for the owners despite his skills.
 

mudbunny

Community Supporter
Okay, it is a long thread, so maybe I missed it - has anyone done a count to see how many people have been let go from other parts of the company?

I ask merely because we must be careful of the appearances - we are apt to talk a lot about D&D-side layoffs, while layoffs in other portions could happen without comment on these boards. We remember what we see, and all that.

We also don't know how many people have been hired. Is the number of D&D employees at a steady state, increasing or decreasing.
 

Jdvn1

Hanging in there. Better than the alternative.
Here's where you begin to get confused, since WotC has multiple properties and they do hope the properties all out perform their previous mark, and that is how all companies are run. It is also true that Hasbro hangs on to properties for the long haul and that they are apparently planning to hang on to D&D. They had the chance to unload it right after getting WotC and plenty of opportunity since. When a corporation holds properties, it generally tries to do something with them, either in-house or through licensing. WotC does both with D&D and they do indeed hope but cannot guarantee that those efforts will be entirely fruitful.
You're using some imprecise terms that are a little confusing. WotC may want all of their properties to out perform their previous mark, but that's not how companies are run. Companies are run to make a profit. If one quarter their profit is $1M, and the next their profit is $2, they don't need to keep increasing their profit, or their previous mark. If they make a 5% return on their investments one quarter, they don't necessarily need to improve on that number the next quarter. That's just unrealistic. They would be happy if they could get consistent growth every quarter--say, 3% every quarter, or more likely an average of 3% every quarter (or whatever).

Further, but they don't expect every investment in their property will be profitable. For example, not every book sells equally well. Some may not turn a profit, and some may. As long as they turn a profit on average, they're going to make a profit overall, they'll be happy, and they won't have to shrink their workforce. There are a variety of D&D products on sale, and for each one, you better believe they have projected costs and sales. As long as they have a decent array of products and decent projections, they're not relying on a hope of one product selling, they're relying the law of averages. They don't hope things will sell, they already have an idea how much things will sell, and provide enough products to make up for statistical anomalies.

Mark said:
Where to begin . . . This bit of hyperbole starts by creating your strawman (no one but you seems to be claiming Hasbro is staffed by morons?), then mischaracterizing what others are saying (going under?), then drawing a conclusion (Hasbro satisfied?) for which there is no definite evidence one way or another (as mentioned up thread). I'm amazed how much you crammed into that little passage. To reply with some sense, corporations regularly have companies and divisions that underperform, and the indicators of this are viewed far more often than simply every six months (even what they are charged to show their shareholders comes every quarter). A sign that some portion of a company is in trouble relative to how they are expected to perform is how stable the workforce is maintained.
No one claimed that Hasbro is staffed by morons, but by claiming that their business practices are self-destructive, you certainly imply it. And, if you have a problem with the term 'going under' then I point out that you never clarified the difference between 'suicidal' and 'self-destructive.' And, I already explained why the conclusion of Hasbro being satisfied with their practices is a reasonable conclusion.

I said six months because it's been mentioned that the lay offs occur roughly ever six months. But, that isn't even the point. The point is that if the company were in trouble, they wouldn't have scheduled lay offs anyways. They'd lay people off as necessary, not according to a schedule. Scheduled lay offs, on the other hand, are a very stable way of managing your workforce.

Mark said:
As Erik points out for both our benefit, no more Pokemon, and though there are other properties, MtG is certainly the one that apparently stands out as having a reputation for being worthy of mention when touting what in WotC can be reported to Hasbro and their shareholders during quarterly reports. D&D doesn't seem to get a mention. As to the assertion upthread that other areas of the company aside from the D&D departments have similar layoffs, while that would be a shame, I've never seen any evidence of this. Anyone who wishes to dispute that the D&D areas of WotC shoulder the largest burden of the systematic/periodic layoffs, please step up and go on the record. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, we can only go on what we know.
MtG certainly gets a mention in some quarterly reports. But, mind you, a quarterly report will mention the positive and negative aspects of a company, and likely ignore the average aspects of a company.

And, regarding lay offs in other WotC departments, your earlier claim that:
Mark said:
In the absence of numbers showing the prosperity of the D&D brand specifically, and given that the target of regular WotC layoffs appear to mostly be from the D&D sections of the company, I often find the claims of D&D being in good shape post-Hasbro takeover to be suspect.
Is probably not a good claim to make given that there's no evidence to support it (and, claiming the opposite is probably not a good claim either, for the same reason).
 

Jdvn1

Hanging in there. Better than the alternative.
We also don't know how many people have been hired. Is the number of D&D employees at a steady state, increasing or decreasing.
It's a good, important question. There are sometimes mentions in WotC articles about new hires, but I don't think any one knows if those are exhaustive, or if they focus on more visible positions. Everyone seems content to assume the number of D&D employees is shrinking, though.
 

Shemeska

Adventurer
We also don't know how many people have been hired. Is the number of D&D employees at a steady state, increasing or decreasing.

Unless they've not been posting open positions for D&D on the main WotC/Hasbro open positions page, it's been steadily decreasing. For instance the DDI team (again unless they've been doing hiring entirely off the board) is a fraction of its original size (both when outsourced and compared to the subsequent internal dev and testing team).
 

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