D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] DM questions regarding the art of magic war

[PLUTON]

Hi,
I'm an medium experienced DM with focus on storytelling but plaqued by power gamers in the group (currently Level 8, DnD 3.5) . Powergamers not by power character building but by "creative using of magic" in combat which i can not easily match due to lack of experience (or skill).

I have some specific questions..

1. If you are invisible and have "nondetection" on you, will "see invisible" still work on you ?
2. Is it correct that a simple skeleton conjured as an guardian can see invisible & shadows hidden people perfectly because undead "see the lifeforce" ?
3. How high is the spot/search value to find a druid in the forest hiding as forest in wildshaped bird among other birds but annoying the DM's enemy party with constant call lightning ? (No, he has no magic item with him )
4. A wizard casts fly on himself and levitates on a big massive boulder making it weigthless and pushing it over a stationary or big slow moving target. He goes to maximum fall damage height , casts true strike and removes the levitate from the boulder. Any ideas about making these strategy more difficult?
5. What chance/modifier to find/hit an invisible flying wizard with an ordinary archer ?
6. How can i notice a rope trick is present (standard trap evading tactics) and what possibilities do i have to get them out ?
7. Detect evil-Spell. Can you detect the evil alignment of a ordinary people not connected to an higher evil power? And if so, how are you to be supposed to play crime mysteries settings ?
8. Does an non detection spell on a thief protect him from triggering magic traps?

Many questions
If someone can help me with some of them, i would appreciate that..
.. and you can live with the satisfaction that due to you somewhere in the realms some people will met unexpected resistance the next sessions.

Finally, i would appreciate hints or links pointing at same reading sources where i can improve my DM "fighting skills in higher levels" to make combat more interesting. I already found the tactics articles at the wizards site.
I'm experimenting with non damage dealing spells and area shaping spells but i think that i'm neither the first one with such problems nor will i be the last one .


Regards
Pluton

 

[Dandu]

1. If you are invisible and have "nondetection" on you, will "see invisible" still work on you ?

This has been debated. I personally suspect it does based on the divinations it specifically blocks blocks. It comes down to whether you believe See Invisbility is a detect spell.

2. Is it correct that a simple skeleton conjured as an guardian can see invisible & shadows hidden people perfectly because undead "see the lifeforce" ?

Some undead have Lifesense, the ability to sense life force. Simple skeletons do not have this ability in their stat blocks, unlike, say, Dread Wraiths.

3. How high is the spot/search value to find a druid in the forest hiding as forest in wildshaped bird among other birds but annoying the DM's enemy party with constant call lightning ? (No, he has no magic item with him )

Pretty high. I'm not sure what the exact value would be, but it'd definitely be pretty hard.

4. A wizard casts fly on himself and levitates on a big massive boulder making it weigthless and pushing it over a stationary or big slow moving target. He goes to maximum fall damage height , casts true strike and removes the levitate from the boulder. Any ideas about making these strategy more difficult?

True Strike does not work that way. You're not making an attack roll if you're just dismissing a spell. You're just dropping a rock on someone unguided. If it's well placed, it would hit the enemy's square and force a reflex save to avoid damage.

5. What chance/modifier to find/hit an invisible flying wizard with an ordinary archer ?

Beat the check to hear or spot the wizard by 20 and you can pinpoint him. You still suffer a 50% miss chance.

6. How can i notice a rope trick is present (standard trap evading tactics) and what possibilities do i have to get them out ?

Detect Magic reveals a Rope Trick. Dispel Magic would probably get rid of it.

7. Detect evil-Spell. Can you detect the evil alignment of a ordinary people not connected to an higher evil power? And if so, how are you to be supposed to play crime mysteries settings ?

Ordinary people can detect as evil. Being evil does not mean you go around kicking puppies on a daily basis.

8. Does an non detection spell on a thief protect him from triggering magic traps?

Some magic traps depend on pressure plates, for example, or triggers other than magical detection.

 

[Sorry_Charry]

Dandu answered mostly along the lines of what I was thinking for your questions. I do have an additional observation with one of your questions.

4. A wizard casts fly on himself and levitates on a big massive boulder making it weigthless and pushing it over a stationary or big slow moving target. He goes to maximum fall damage height , casts true strike and removes the levitate from the boulder. Any ideas about making these strategy more difficult?

At first glance, the fly/levitate combo made me shake my head. But after looking it up, it looks feasible. But it would take an awfully long time to set up.

I agree with Dandu that True Strike is not needed (or allowed) to pull this off.

It looks like you are using the falling damage rules to set the damage for falling boulders (which is fine, I would do the same). I am only bringing that up because the maximum fall distance of 200' will feature prominently in my dissection of how this combo might get pulled off.

So, level 8 wizard...

Wizard casts Fly on himself [standard action] (60' movement... assuming light load here, but can only ascend at half speed, So... 30' vertical movement overall)

Wizard casts Levitate on large rock [standard action] (20' vertical movement)

Then, wizard alternates move actions until both he and the enchanted rock are 200' in elevation (Fly uses move actions to move, just as levitate uses move actions to move the target of the spell 20').

Now, assuming that the wizard casts Fly on round 1, and then moves straight up (30') with a move action...

On the next turn, he might cast Levitate on a large rock, and then burn a move action to raise it straight up (20').

Beginning on round 3, the wizard will need to burn 6 more move actions to Fly to an altitude of 200' (well, 210' technically), and 9 more move actions to get the rock to an altitude of 200'.

So, all told, 15 move actions to get both flying wizard and levitating rock to final altitude. Seven double moves and a move action on the following round ought to cover it.

Oh, and then the wizard could use a few standard actions to use his push/drag score (determined by strength) to position the boulder where he would like it. The push/drag amount is five times a character's heavy load (the book further suggests that favorable conditions could double this number).

Being generous, I'd rule that since the boulder was floating, a character could push/drag x10 his maximum load (1000 pounds for a strength score of 10). Heck, double the number, make it x20 for a strength of 10... it won't matter.

Since an 8th level wizard can only enchant an 800 pound boulder in this fashion... all in all, the weight of the boulder becomes a moot point. Whatever method you would use to determine if he could push/drag it... chances are, he could do it.

Now, after 10 rounds, the trap is primed, set, and ready to go (2 rounds to cast spells/move, and 8 more to ascend/position).

On the following round, a final standard action allows the wizard to dismiss Levitate, causing his rock to plummet and (potentially) achieve the desired result (on the eleventh round).

Overall, a ten round set-up, for a 20d6 attack that (if you assign a reflex save) might miss! Not too impressive.

 

[Alexander123]

You could use shrink item to carry the boulder up in your hand and then position it, speak the command word and see it drop. Interestingly if you have a plentiful supply of large boulders (perhaps buy them from a store?), you could get a wand of shrink item (11,250 gp.) and carry a number of boulders and drop them from on high. If you were dropping the boulders on a larger enemy this strategy might be pretty effective actually. Or if you were assaulting an enemy camp. This seems to be a strategy for when you have time to prepare. Although it would be a great way to defend a castle or a keep.

I think Dandu pretty much said it.

 

[Magesmiley]

7. Detect evil-Spell. Can you detect the evil alignment of a ordinary people not connected to an higher evil power? And if so, how are you to be supposed to play crime mysteries settings ?

So, one thought here is to throw in some red herrings. The NPC of evil alignment who has done absolutely nothing wrong. If the PCs just zero in on him/her because he is evil, let the real culprit run amok and do all sorts of bad things.

Thought two: not all criminals are necessarily evil. I'm sure you could come up with more than a few scenarios where the authorities are the evil ones and the thieves are the good guys (Robin Hood?). Or that neither the criminal not the victim are truly evil - An item was stolen from person X in a far off kingdom, he's seized it from person Y (who thinks that he/she legally obtained it from person Z), etc.

 

[anest1s]

When the wizard is at max height, cast dispel magic.

The enemy party could burn the forest, or get away from it, or use detect magic, or throw a stone and see which birds fly away and which ones stay...

About the rogue...well it depends on the trap. If it depends on a spell that bypasses nondetection, then why not? But even if the rogue doesn't set it off, someone else will do...

 

[Dross]

There are a few other things to remember.

If the PCs are fighting any type of organisation, have survivors talk about tactics used against them. It is rare for ALL foes in a group to fight to the death. Then if they have the resources, specific counters can be done.

There is also nothing stopping someone just sitting back (invisible or camoflagued in say a flock of birds) and watching how the PCs operate.

bird/druid:

• Wind spells like Gust of Wind and Control Winds, blow the birds or single druid/bird away (note the types of saves for many of these spells).
• Call Lightning requires you to target a spot, if the druid cannot see a foe then it must guess where the foe is.
• Why are the flock of birds staying in an area where it is raining lightning or where a group of creatures making a lot of noise (combat)? The one that remains must have something to do with the party (familiar, animal companion or something similar if not ID'ed as the druid itself). If they all remain, use an Area of Effect spell, anything remaining must be more than a normal 'tiny' bird/animal).
• Flying swarms may work (Summon Swarm) to disperse the birds. Seeing a bird in a "flock" of bats would lower the spot DC

Invisibility & non-detection:

• do not help against having to move over terrain that will highlight someone's movement. Water, footprints in mud or snow can make targeting easier. Sometimes vegetation. Still the miss chance but you can at least pinpoint the square.

Flying wizard & boulder:

• No one thought to shoot at the wizard (if not invisible {implied by Q4} during the time to set this combo up (Sorry_Charry's ~10 rounds, but the spells are minutes/level so they could be ready with forewarning)? Add time to cast the 2 invisibilities (I do not consider a boulder to be gear)
• No one in a world with many aerial threats thought to look up?
• Just have the foes move a lot to negate this tactic.
• No Dispel Magic or other magics to use?
• See invisibility or other senses (tremorsense, blindsight, scent)?
• Anything blocking foes seeing the wizard/boulder also stop the wizard seeing his foes.
• Use (Summoned) Swarm of bats and let him try to spend time ignoring the 1d6 damage/round + possible nausea (FORT DC11) +1 point ongoing damage while he sets up a single attack.

Also note that anything the PCs can do, why not an NPC at some stage?

Survivor of 1st encounter: They did this and that and another thing.
Leader: We have casters, lets hit them with the same trick. Even if they counter us, it will give us methods to counter them next time!

 

[vrock]

Now, after 10 rounds, the trap is primed, set, and ready to go (2 rounds to cast spells/move, and 8 more to ascend/position).

On the following round, a final standard action allows the wizard to dismiss Levitate, causing his rock to plummet and (potentially) achieve the desired result (on the eleventh round).

Overall, a ten round set-up, for a 20d6 attack that (if you assign a reflex save) might miss! Not too impressive.

This gave me a bit of a laugh and reminded me of something one of my players tried to do in a 2ed game. It involved polymorph and then falling on monsters to crush them.

Anyway, when I have players that think up crazy power combos I usually fall back on real-world physics. If they want to go through the 10 round set up to achieve this "trap" then the 11th round they dismiss the spell and it takes 6.25 seconds for the boulder to fall 200ft, longer than a full round! This gives the target a chance to look up on his next turn and step out of the way. No save needed, just a spot check. If they fail that, then a reflex save the round the boulder actually hits.

Sometimes it's hard to beat the players at this little game. But at least you know their tricks after they use them the first time.

 

[Alexander123]

I would rule that .25 seconds is not enough time for the monster to be considered as having a chance to look up and step out of the way. I would still require a save. If a large boulder was falling on anyone in real life and they had .25 seconds to look and get out of the way, almost all of them would fail. Consider that the very act of looking is going to take up time. I would rule that the boulder hits their face the moment they look up.

 

[anest1s]

I would rule that .25 seconds is not enough time for the monster to be considered as having a chance to look up and step out of the way. I would still require a save. If a large boulder was falling on anyone in real life and they had .25 seconds to look and get out of the way, almost all of them would fail. Consider that the very act of looking is going to take up time. I would rule that the boulder hits their face the moment they look up.

What about the 6 seconds? Aren't they enough?
The point is that it needs a round to reach the ground...