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Ampersand: 2011 releases officially gutted

shadzar

Banned
Banned
I don't see e-readers as an obsolete piece of technology, anymore than a calculator is obsolete. Sure tablets and pc's can do more, with the right apps, but sometimes you want something that does one thing, and one thing well. Basic e-readers like the Kindle and regular Nook offer the storage capability of a pc (libraries of books stored locally) with a weight and battery life that a pc just cannot touch.

I love unitaskers, the right tool for the right job and all, but that is just the problem. Electronic devices in this day and age that do only one thing are obsolete.

I would love to find a cell phone today without all this wasted space for CCD, SMS, etc crap that just is a mobile device for talking to someone else. They don't make them anymore because people don't want unitaskers because of lack of focus. The technology created AD(H)D is causing the technology to need more things to keep these peoples attention on it to kep spending on the technology like "apps".

I don't want a computer that only does one thing, when I already have one that does much much more, especially not one with a proprietary file format because of some DRM, that forces me to use only that device and should that device foul up ALL my money on the "books" is wasted unless I buy an entire new device. That is why the world embraced the PDF format so widely because it was cross-platform compatible and could be used on whatever device you were on at the time by moving it to that device. WotC doesn't want you to "share" files even with yourself, because copying the file to have on each computer you own would be in violation of copyright as technically you are supposed to NOT copy it in the first place, but the gray area is if you do, you are actually supposed to be moving it, so you only own one copy, which means deleting it form the other location and if you need it there again, you must move it back...legally.

Also the e-readers I have seen just don't perform what an e-book should in the form of advantages for reference materials. The are basically digital micro-fiche machines.

electronic reference book needs:
-searchability
-full color display of diagrams and illustrations to depict things in the text
-useable without connection to the power company in case of power outages
-full offline ability to use the material in case of network outages
-accessibility features for differently-abled persons

These are jsut a few things an electronic reader would need to be better than a book, other than mass storage capability. The ability to delete bought books as has been done is a GIANT turn-off for many, as they could think lots of other problems are being had from device failure, payment error so the "book" was repossessed, and mountains of other things that you just wouldn't know from the thing not working all of a sudden. Granted some could be simple like battery charge depleted.

The last one touches maybe a sensitive topic, and one D&D has never really done anything about, but if moving to all digital and the e-book format, they would ahve too, as a full-blown computer can have these things installed to allow text-to-speech, as blind persons can read braille books or listen to books on tape; but I havent yet seen an e-reader, that actually will read to you. Do any of them have text-to-speech?

You cannot install "apps" to these simple readers to do other things with. WebTV was a cute idea, but it died out because it was basically a reading tool, and most people want more interaction that the ability to read, but it had more functionality than any of the e-readers, and some of the same problems.

The medium may change to digital for D&D, but these e-books just don't have what it takes and people want them to do for gamers. Character Builder wont work on it (if/when it does work), the entire DDi wont work on it since it is a simple reader, you still need an intermediary device to get from the website to the reader.

I am sorry to say, that the "duplicate a book in electronic format, but able to hold a library" would have been a good idea 20 years ago, but today it jsut doesnt do enough as a device and was outmoded by laptops and these last-gen phones before it ever hit the markets.
 

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The Halfling

Explorer
I have a Nook color. It is not a great pdf reader, I'd prefer a table the size of the iPad for that. But, I did read an entire issue on the Nook, no problem.

I would 100% either wait for the Xoom, or test the Nook.

For reading, I think the Nook is a better size (books and stuff). For other things, I'm thinking I want that Xoom or iPad2.

I have not yet broken the Nook, I'm confident B&N will be releasing an update in the next month or so that will allow me to use it more as a tablet than I can now.

It is a very nice piece of hardware (have not tried the audio yet).

I concur w/ Zaukrie.

While I can read Dragon and Dungeon mags on the nookcolor (thank goodness for landscape orientation capability), it's not 100% for displaying pdfs. It doesn't use Adobe reader for android, but rather Quickoffice.

While I thought of rooting the darn thing, I'm waiting on B&N to implement the marketplace to update the device to add a little more functionality in this regards.

I too am looking forward to the Xoom. While the nookcolor can be rooted, I would rather keep it as is, and use a proper tablet for other functions.

Still, for an e-reader, it's not bad. Having a backit LCD helps tremendously when reading in bed and in dim or low light. I've encountered no eye strain myself, and I have horrible vision w/o my glasses.
 

The Halfling

Explorer
I love unitaskers, the right tool for the right job and all, but that is just the problem. Electronic devices in this day and age that do only one thing are obsolete.

I would love to find a cell phone today without all this wasted space for CCD, SMS, etc crap that just is a mobile device for talking to someone else. They don't make them anymore because people don't want unitaskers because of lack of focus. The technology created AD(H)D is causing the technology to need more things to keep these peoples attention on it to kep spending on the technology like "apps".

I don't want a computer that only does one thing, when I already have one that does much much more, especially not one with a proprietary file format because of some DRM, that forces me to use only that device and should that device foul up ALL my money on the "books" is wasted unless I buy an entire new device. That is why the world embraced the PDF format so widely because it was cross-platform compatible and could be used on whatever device you were on at the time by moving it to that device. WotC doesn't want you to "share" files even with yourself, because copying the file to have on each computer you own would be in violation of copyright as technically you are supposed to NOT copy it in the first place, but the gray area is if you do, you are actually supposed to be moving it, so you only own one copy, which means deleting it form the other location and if you need it there again, you must move it back...legally.

Also the e-readers I have seen just don't perform what an e-book should in the form of advantages for reference materials. The are basically digital micro-fiche machines.

electronic reference book needs:
-searchability
-full color display of diagrams and illustrations to depict things in the text
-useable without connection to the power company in case of power outages
-full offline ability to use the material in case of network outages
-accessibility features for differently-abled persons

These are jsut a few things an electronic reader would need to be better than a book, other than mass storage capability. The ability to delete bought books as has been done is a GIANT turn-off for many, as they could think lots of other problems are being had from device failure, payment error so the "book" was repossessed, and mountains of other things that you just wouldn't know from the thing not working all of a sudden. Granted some could be simple like battery charge depleted.

No a simple e-reader would not do most of these things. Most are designed and intended for lay people, not tech fiends. More advanced readers with proper OS's could easy do all these things. Full offline capability is already there, and the files are stored locally once you purchase them, and battery life is @ 10 hours.

The last one touches maybe a sensitive topic, and one D&D has never really done anything about, but if moving to all digital and the e-book format, they would ahve too, as a full-blown computer can have these things installed to allow text-to-speech, as blind persons can read braille books or listen to books on tape; but I havent yet seen an e-reader, that actually will read to you. Do any of them have text-to-speech?

If I remember correctly, the Kindle had this feature, but was forced to disable it by the publishers. It apparently infringed on their selection and sales of audio books. So it was thought of, but capitalism reared it's head.

You cannot install "apps" to these simple readers to do other things with. WebTV was a cute idea, but it died out because it was basically a reading tool, and most people want more interaction that the ability to read, but it had more functionality than any of the e-readers, and some of the same problems.

True on most e-ink readers you can't install apps, but some of the LCD/Android-based readers, like the Cruz Micro and Pandigital Micro have marketplaces set up that do enable this. So if you want more functionality out of a device, you can..if you spend the money. $130 for an e-ink "dumb" reader, $120-$250 for a "smarter" Android-based reader, or $500 plus for a full fledged tablet like the Xoom or iPad.

The medium may change to digital for D&D, but these e-books just don't have what it takes and people want them to do for gamers. Character Builder wont work on it (if/when it does work), the entire DDi wont work on it since it is a simple reader, you still need an intermediary device to get from the website to the reader.

I am sorry to say, that the "duplicate a book in electronic format, but able to hold a library" would have been a good idea 20 years ago, but today it jsut doesnt do enough as a device and was outmoded by laptops and these last-gen phones before it ever hit the markets.

Possibly true, but 20 years go portable memory size was no where near the stability, capability or size to make this feasible. And as for laptops and next gen phones as a suitable replacement is not realistic. I have an android phone, and reading on that screen is horrible. It's not a quality but a size issue. And as I have said before, laptops have the capability in spades but not the longevity of power. Ease of use and instant gratification are the selling points for e-readers. 5-10 sec from power up to start reading a book....no laptop can do that. I will agree that tablets, designed like the iPad (and hopefully the Android 3.0 tablets) may give the e-reader a run, provided cost is not a factor. And that is a big factor.
 

Dice4Hire

First Post
But if you think they're ever going to mass produce something like Arcane Power 2 in hardcover print format ever again, I'd say you were being way too optimistic. I just don't see it happening. The odds of the bottom falling out of the digital database access format is just too long to bet on in my opnion.

I really don't understand the last sentence at all.

But for the rest, those of us who use the Internet for everything tend to think the Internet Is everything. For them, it may be.

But going with your argument, how is WOTC selling essentials? Online? Nope. It is in game stores and big box retailers, and those, I need to point out, are not digital places.

I am glad all those looking at digital initiatives as a nirvana are so confident about tteir future earnings and lifestyle they can wed themselves to 9.99 a month for the rest of their natural lives for DDI access. Or all the other stuff that is behind paywalls.

Books are still out there, and I cannot see them going away soon. Maybe they will be less important, but saying htey are a waste of time is jsut not logical.
 

Dausuul

Legend
Books are still out there, and I cannot see them going away soon. Maybe they will be less important, but saying htey are a waste of time is jsut not logical.

It's not that books per se are a waste of time; it's a question of return on investment. There's a big up-front cost to creating a physical book. You have to typeset it, pay for cover and interior art, arrange for distribution, and do a print run, and thanks to the way bookstores and publishers do business, you eat the cost for any of those books that end up sitting on shelves. With so many people now relying on DDI for their regular dose of crunch, it's quite possible that the sales of a typical splatbook have fallen below the point where it's worth the up-front cost of printing.

The core manuals will stay in print, but there won't be an endless crunch-stream in book form any more. If 90% of crunch-stream buyers have switched to DDI, this is a logical move. Kind of hard on the other 10%, but that's capitalism for you.

(Of course, it's also possible that the books are still profitable in an absolute sense, but the D&D budget simply won't accommodate that up-front cost. If this is the case, it's very bad news.)
 
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Mengu

First Post
I'm not sure the discussion for book vs e-book, and some of the proof presented is necessarily any indication for the issue at hand. We are talking about a game. First and foremost, D&D is a game. It's not a book. And that's quite a difference.

So ideally we should not be looking for or asking for the best way to deliver D&D books, whether they should be paper or digital. We should be asking for the best way to deliver the D&D game. What that is, I don't know, and even if I had made up my mind on what it should be, it would still be debatable.

"Best way to deliver" of course is a relative concept as well, it's impossible to please everyone. But the important aspects I think we all love and cherish are that we play it face to face, at a table, with dice, and we get to do some role playing, immerse ourselves as adventurers in a fantasy world, and resolve some heroic action with a group of like-minded friends.

The first PHB I borrowed from my first DM is still fresh in my memory. I was in love with that book. It was the best thing since legos. So I can see where the attachment to books (or the red box nostalgia) are coming from.

But if there is some better way to consume D&D (using the WotC lingo), we should be open to it. Sadly I don't have confidence that there is a plan for the future of 4e. The plan for all I know is to try different ideas until something fits (both with us consumers and the financial expectations).

It's a rough road ahead, this switch to soft media will shake things up a bit. It may take a whole edition (or even a change of hands for the product) to get it going smoothly. But in the meantime, the best thing we can do as the community is to tell them what we like, don't like, and would like to see.
 

Korgoth

First Post
DDI, 'eBooks', 'eReaders' and all that trash can go to Hell and die. Print your words on actual cellulose or **** off and take your 'products' with you.

Hey, I really dig the internet. I really, really dig Skype. Search engines and all that stuff are great. But Skype is not as good as being in person, Wikipedia is not as good as an actual scholarly treatment (in fact, there's no comparison since Wikipedia is often blatantly wrong), and serious information that is to be taken seriously is found in books. If it's not worth printing in an actual book, it's probably not worth reading.
 

Quickleaf

Legend
Well I for one am not letting the near total lack of books and poor quality digital offerings turn me off to D&D this year. There's *sooo* much more to the hobby than that. Like dice! And pencils!

And there are things to look forward to... there is Cryptic Studio's awesome D&D video game, AND the long- awaited 3rd D&D movie to restore my brand confidence!

...wait for it...... ;)
 

the Jester

Legend
I am so not interested in a version of D&D without books. I have found that I hardly read any DDI content because it's on a screen, whereas if it were in a magazine in my hands I would devour it. More and more I am realizing that I get less enjoyment out of the electronic offerings, even if I (used to) get significant utility out of them.
 

caudor

Adventurer
The problem with DDI content for me is not that I don't like the content. It's purely an ergonomic issue for me.

I can't read in at a computer long enough to enjoy it. I remember curling up with my hard copy D&D magazines and getting lost in the content. It's just hard to do that when I'm not comfortable...simple as that.

If I could solve this problem, I'd be good to go with online content. I'm looking for my solution, but I'm not sure which direction WotC is headed right now. Seems to be digital, but format is important to know too before investing in expensive hardware.
 

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